Thank you for the Sunday School Answer! Yes ..I know that; but what do we do about the youth worker who can’t claim uneployment, trying to find a ministry, has bills to pay, and want them to stay in ministry the long haul and keep the church revolving door from revolving? Seems to me it is placed on value and what you value. Usually it takes almost a year to find a YP. SAD - too bad they process wasn’t more thorough and quicker.

Wow...so I wonder....whatever happened to agree to disagree....its ok if we have different experiences with different outcomes...I believe that is what makes us so unique...our different conclusions ....I celebrate you all and though I sense hurt, bitterness, anger, etc....I think that we should be free to express. One thing I don’t want to see is people decide not to share anymore...its like the people in our churches who leave ....because they don’t think they fit in or they don’t feel like everyone else does or agree with leadership etc. See I beleive its when we listen to others “different” views that we grow...even if you don’t agree...its helpful to try to understand someone else’s view...and if we leave ....when we aren’t understood or don’t understand...we never grow...sometime I believe you are (you being the different one) needed to maybe help make change...can’t we be a part of the solution instead of picking up our ball and leaving the game and going home....tee hee....pun intended! I am glad for the forum...its like visiting different churches with different schools of thought...I love it...we are family and we CAN agree to disagree....right!

This is the first time I’ve blogged on this web site.  But I identify with the Nameless Youth Pastor.  Years ago, I felt the call to youth ministry, got experience, went to Bible college, and then it ended.  I’m either overqualified or underqualified.  I either run into churches that want the “interim” babysitter youth pastor who runs programs without any care for doctrine or purpose or vision.  Or, more often, the churches who want a real leader add extra requirements.  A seminary degree.  Full-time experience for three, five years.  Here’s a catch-22.  How do you get full-time experience if no one will hire you full-time?  I work in the secular job market and they look for previous preparatory experience.  For example, part-time work related to the chosen job field.  Why does the church have higher standards?  We act like we are hiring doctors and lawyers.  Don’t get me wrong.  I believe we need to hire quality leaders.  But sometimes I feel (from the dozens of interviews) that the church is not looking at passion or calling as much a certain kind of degree.  This has been a growing experience though.  I’ve become a better man and I have discovered what it means to be a minister outside of the ministry per se.  Whatever job or career I choose, my past exposure to formal ministry only heightens my desire to do God’s will and be Christ to an undying world - whether it’s employees, co-workers, or even customers.  I’m tired of the trite answers.  Perhaps it wasn’t your calling, Emmett.  Why does the church assume that when trial happens we have somehow failed God?  Isn’t trial simply the test for greater responsibility?  But through my testing and my resultant growth I’ve discovered the real malady with our churches.  We’ve separated the ministry from the people.  We consider ministry to be something you do under established positions set up by established committees.  How many churches differentiate between those who are volunteer leaders and those who are paid?  If I as a volunteer choose to start a Bible study, some churches would require me to seek committee approval after committee approval.  Why?  I am not really a minister, just someone involved in the ministry.  I believed this myth for a short while during my college education.  I thought I needed a program or a position to validate my work for God.  But eventually I learned to just do it.  You see a need.  Just meet it.  Someone’s hungry.  Feed them.  Someone’s thirsty.  Give them water.  Someone needs Jesus.  Just tell them the Good News.  Every believer, no matter what denomination, needs to understand and believe that they are each ministers of God and that they are each the church of Jesus Christ even outside the church walls.  I have now reached a renewed satisfaction.  I am presently an assistant grocery manager and, rather than wishing I could just quit and be hired into a church, I seek to serve God at work and be actively involved in His church’s work when not at work.  My service is building displays and ordering products and my congregation are my employees.  The 20 stockers who work for me will see Jesus through my words and my actions.  Things like honesty, fairness, consistency, hard work, a caring heart.  Many in my church may not consider me a minister of His Word.  I don’t have a position, I don’t get involved in committees, I even have a hard time making it to church and Sunday School some Sunday mornings.  However, I learn and grow at church to go and outreach to the world.  So, why aren’t many ministers being hired?  Because they have this same vision.  They want to see church outside of the box; but many are too busy running programs which keep the church within a box.  Do we really grow if we are not making new disciples?  Anyways, my advice, seek Him first and be a minister even though the church won’t recognize you as a formal one.  All the power of God to change the world lies in the heart and soul of every individual believer.

Wow this is good stuff. I have been out of my role as worship arts minister for a little over two months now and going crazy. Its good to hear I’m not the only one. Reading this has been somewhat of a “group therapy” for me. I had been serving as worship minister for 7 years at a church and helped grow the church from a little over 300 to a little over 1,000. We had boomed and changed overnite and so did the Work environment if you will. My wife and I were asked to leave because we didnt fit into the growth plan of the church and we werent cut out for the job. OUCH. (my wife was the part time Childrens director) 7 years of service and not one single complaint. NOthing but great outcome in both of our ministries and positive comments up until those last few weeks. So why the change? Not sure.  Lots of heartache this year with difference of opinion and job detail but nothing really to lead to an enforced resignation. We had also only 3 full time staff during that time and carried a huge heavy load of responsibility and detail and time away from family and rest. But to ou surprise it all came to a huge screeching hault as we met with the leaders. I have been looking for two months as well and feel the same way as the first guy. Tired of everything. Too many leads and no answers yet. God has something great in store I know and i keep reading Phillipans 4:6-7 daily as I have it posted on my bathroom wall. It brings me alot of hope and peace. Try and read it! (You can read my own thouhts on it at http://goindeeper.blogspot.com ) I am still plugging away at looking for work and hope that soon I will have some results as in this job/ministry loss we lost both of our incomes and I have 3 people to support. Savings can only last so long. Whats next? I dont know. God does though and I am still waiting on Him. Much easier said then done.

Ever seen a job description like this?  Wanted, youth pastor with a minimum 3-5 years in full time paid ministry, (With the same church)bible education a plus. Duties include overseeing high and middle school youth groups, college and young adult ministries, college ministries and childrens minisrtry.  Duties also include being our churches worship leader.  Did it ever occur to these churhes that there are probably 5 people in our country who have all these gifts?  The Lord has gifted me personally with teenagers, and I hope the first diaper I change will be my own. (When I get much older) I don’t get kids, and even a college group is a stretch for me. I spend 45 hrs. a week in yout ministry as it is and have to tell myself no to more hours just to keep my family life healthy.  I really admire those who can do multiple ministries.  I just don’t think its reasonable for churhces to try and get one person to do so many ministries and expect them to be top notch.  There is just not that many hours in a day.  Maybe I’m odd in that I’m a relational youth minister who loves to spend direct time with my students.  I’ve also had a church recenlty ask me in a phone interview if I’d be o.k. working in a “pay for performance” situation.  I told them I’d never worked sales, and I asked if this were a commision position.  They told me what they had in mind was a lower base salary, and a $500.00 a month raise after 6 months if I had landed 10 students and their parents.  I told them landing the 10 students was not a problem, I’d get them 20 or 30.  I told them the problem was the parents.  I said you are asking me to be evaluated on something that has variable out of my control.  What if the parents don’t find the church friendly enough?  What if the preaching style is not what they are looking for?  What if they like a liturgical service and ours is not. What if they are more comfortable in a charasmatic church and we are more traditional.  What if they like contemprary music and we are primarily a hymn church. See my point?  The parents of our teens are the most unchurched group the modern church has ever seen.  Demographically, they are the least reached.  What makes these churches think the youth pastors have all the answers?  My current church happens to be small (65 on a Sunday)and we average 68 years of age.  (I’m 33) I have 25 or so middle schoolers who attend my youth group and 15-18 high schoolers on a different night.  None of my students attend my church.  The ones that have tried it all give similar feedback.  “Good preaching, nice people, music sucks”.  I’ve shared this with my board and they have been reluctant to change.  They feel like I have failed because the students don’t want to come to church.  They have recently been pressuring me because in the past nine months I’ve had 23 students accept the Lord and none are plugged into a decipleship program and or Sunday School.  We have given the students teen bibles, encouraged them to read, pray, and work trough thier devotions. We’ve invited them to meet with us for a dicipleship class and all have declined.  Some students have tried Sunday School only to say “its boring, we like youth group”. Parents today let thier kids choose whether they go to church.  Parents 30 years ago didn’t.  The board judging me thinks things should work the way they did long ago.  They then tell me that there are other churches that have successful Sunday School classes for h.s. and m.s. students. I asked them what all of them had in common....they didn’t know. So I shared with them that generally speaking, 90+ % of the kids in those classed had parents who were either in another adult Sunday School class or in the church service. They just don’t want to hear, get some parents, and you will get some students.  To accept that would mean, to possible change thier method.  They don’t get that they can keep the message the same.  I’m now seeking a church that cross generationally represented.  Thanks for the vent.

READ “THE DREAM GIVER” by Bruce Wilkinson