How about respectfully disagreeing.  “Pastor I thought you sermon was a little long.” You say, “I thought the length was good, I am glad we can disagree and still get along.  I was not aware that you took classes on sermon preparation.  That is good to know.  Oh you didn’t?” Pastor I thought the music was loud this morning.” You say, “I thought it was just right I enjoyed it, though if I had a complaint about the music I would go to the music pastor rather than the pastor.  I am sure he would like to hear your ideas since I don’t pass them on to him/her!  Course First Baptist down the road is awful quite you could see if you like there service....infact I will drive you there glady every Sunday”

Having a little fun!  Ok so Maybe a little sacastic!

Jade

From a non-pastor’s perspective…

Is a pastor ever justified in defending themselves from the verbal fists of the whiny?

Ever justified? Probably so, but each and every situation is so subjective, there’s really not a silver bullet answer. It might sound cliche, but maybe internally asking the question “how would Jesus respond to this?” before responding to “the whiny” would be the wise thing to do.

How free is a pastor to run someone out of their office who is divisive? 

Guess from a practical standpoint, it depends on who the person is and what the reason is. Could result in one of those stiuations where the pastor wins and loses at the same time.

When can a pastor exercise the pastoral authority in the life a moaner and groaner?

This is a slippery slope. Make sure your interpretation of “pastoral authority” doesn’t equate to being a rancher rather than a shepherd.

I think the key issue for me is to “Speak the TRUTH in LOVE...” I have shot back over the years, and regretted it.  I don’t regret it becasue I am now living elsewhere, but because I know it was not the response that showed that person Jesus’ love through me.

SOOOOO how do I TRY to respond now?  PRAY for the _________ who make those comments, then confront them in a calm and controlled manner with the TRUTH.  Then move on with my day, ministry and family and sleep well at night not worrying about their “giving, gossip, perceived power....  as much as is possible with me I have tried to live at peace… and that is a two way conversation which often means confronting them in love.

Good subject.

In the latter years of my ministry I took the “I won’t fight” approach. I have often wondered if this was best because it resulted to 2 short term pastorates (I resigned both times)

I simply have no stomach for Church fighting. It is ugly. I hate it.

Congregational rule is part of the problem with many Churches. As a Baptist we give each person a vote. In the Southern Baptist Church I pastored a person could vote IF they attended at least once in the past year. You end up with carnal, unspiritual people making decisions. (and yes the pastor can be carnal and unspiritual)

In every Church, at the end of the day, someone has to be the final decision maker. We can have boards and Church meetings, but it in the end the buck stops somewhere with a person. In most Churches that place is with the pastor.

Let me give a personal story.

Not too many years ago I pastored a Southern Baptist Church in Michigan. It was a dying Church on life support. I looked at it as a Church plant. (and I thought the Church did too) I worked full time with the Church for a part time salary, with my wife working to make up the difference.

The Church building was 6,000 sq feet of mess. The Church had 25,000 in the bank they had been sitting on. I suggested we clean up and remodel the building. 100% vote YES. So we started in. We had meetings, meetings, meetings. Everything was approved.

Things went along fine until we got to doing the nursery.  I have very high standards of how nurseries should be. I’ve seen far too many nurseries I wouldn’t put a flea infested dog in. The Church had that kind of nursery. Filthy, dirty toys, dingy, donated broken furniture, exposed electrical wire, and half the floor was concrete.

We successfully remodeled the nursery. Then trouble showed up. A woman (who had aspiration to preach) took it upon herself to furnish the nursery with some junk (and I mean junk) from her garage. Without talking to anyone she brought it in and put it in the nursery.  I called her and said I did not want the stuff in the nursery..................the stuff was not suitable for the nursery and some of it down right unsafe. So we moved the stuff out of the nursery.......War ensued.

She called a Church meeting. I told the Church that I was not going to fight over this (and reminded them that they had entrusted me to make these types of decisions). Some insisted on a Church vote. I reminded them that I told them when I came I would not “fight” with them. So, I resigned.

At the end of the meeting..........here was the most telling comment.....a retired preacher’s wife said “Bruce, this was YOUR vision. It never was OUR vision.” Keep in mind we had meeting after meeting, voted on everything, and had the “vision” issue mapped out, defined, and settled.

After 30 years of ministry I am at the place where I will think twice, I mean 25 times, whether or not to pastor a Church with congregational rule.  Too many variables for me. Too many feelings to constantly soothed. Too many ______to kiss. (insert John Piper bad word)

Now I certainly do not think autocratic one man rule is the answer either......a plurality of elders? Perhaps.

Just one story of many...........

One time when it is especially worth the pastor fighting back is when it is happening at inappropriate times.

Case in point: A hospital waiting room full of people - say 100 or so. Some from the pastor’s church is there to be with the family of a man having surgery - the others complete strangers with the potential of listening in and watching with their own eyes. The pastor is unable to be there due to a conflict in schedules. A couple of people take it upon themselves to talk not only negatively about the church but in particular about the pastor to the man’s family. “He should really be here especially given who your dad is in our church. Why doesn’t he know what all your dad has done for the church? It wouldn’t be the church it is today without your dad and the pastor should be reminded of that.” WHAT??? Sorry..... my dad was not Christ.

I talked with the pastor about what happened that day in the waiting room because it broke our hearts. It not only made us uncomfortable while waiting for word on dad but also made several others that way too who had come there to support us. For those who I could tell were listening who were not a part of our church..... I cannot imagine what they were thinking. I do not know that I want to. The pastor asked me for names - I gave them. He then talked with those individuals never saying it was me that told him. Just that it “got back to him by an offended party”......

Leonard, looking forward to Part II.

Mark,

In all these years on ministry I have never thought of that?  At least putting on a card, I think I will use that.

I also tend to believe that 99% of all “concerns” are born out of the simple condition that people expect others to solve their problems.

For instance if a member comes up and says, “The music is too loud” I would respond, “That might be, but what can you do to prepare yourself for loud music in the future?” Them: “Well, you should turn it down.” Me: “Well, if that doesn’t happen what could you do yourself to alleviate the loudness?” Them, “Well, I could bring some ear plugs.” Me: “That sounds like a good solution; I hope that works out for you.”

Blessings,
PA

When we “roll over & play dead” in the face of rude comments, gossip & other verbal garbage, our example teaches our congregations that the “Christian response” is to pretend that those kind of sins don’t hurt people & churches.

To quote the noted theologian, Spiderman’s uncle, “With great power comes great responsibility.” We who have been given the “spotlight” should use it wisely to kindly & firmly call people to account for their actions.

In my own church, I’ve instructed our worship pastor to ignore anonymous notes & gripe-y comments about our music choices. OTOH, I’ve told him that a soft-hearted comment about a song/hymn (for example, “Pastor, I really miss singing Victory in Jesus… it reminds me of the night I gave my life to Christ") should be rewarded - use the chorus as a bridge between songs, or do the whole thing on a week where it fits with the topic.

As the senior pastor, I’ve chosen to ask people who want to gripe to do so in the right forums… one gentleman likes to “score points” off of me & other leaders by asking nasty questions in front of crowds of people. (He doesn’t care about the answers - he simply wants to make his rhetorical “score” and move on.) He’s pretty much stopped since I chose to ask him to take this up at an appropriate time with me in my office… when he started in again 5 minutes later, he made a joke about “being in trouble with the pastor.” I turned and said, “Yes. I asked you to bring that up with me later. Why didn’t you choose to respect my request?”

We have to teach our people to look at the examples of Scripture - those in leadership REGULARLY call people out - sometimes in pretty tough ways - for stuff that is destructive to the church and/or to themselves as individuals. Nathan, Samuel, Paul, Peter, Jesus… this is a line of leaders we should be standing in!

Leonard, there’s not a pastor alive that can’t relate to what you’re saying.  I know many people would disagree with me, but I think a pastor can, at the appropriate time, tell whiners to shove it.  (If Amos, Jesus, and John the Baptist could call folks, “Fat cows of Bashan,” “white-washed tombs,” and “brood of vipers,” then surely we can be direct with troublemakers from time to time [See Amos 4:1; Matthew 23:27; Luke 3:7].) If that’s too harsh for our feminized culture—where everything has to be sweet and nice—then, I say tough, but also would point the whiners to the Scriptural passages that address complainers.  God doesn’t like whiners any more than we do.

http://www.NeedNotFret.com