I don’t get the point.  Who is the shirt designed for, Christians or the lost?  I really think we are becoming more and more irrelevant to those outside the church.

Todd, I’m with you on this.  I don’t use the word or allow my kids either

i just posted something with a link to churchmarketingsucks and i felt a little odd typing it out cuz we don’t say it either and for the same reasons as you, todd.

i actually have a little more trouble with stuff that is what i understand “profanity” to be - misusing words that should have tremendous value and devaluing their meaning (diffusing their importance).  that’s why GD will never be acceptable in my home.  and why to me h*** used out of context or in a hotter than h*** way will also not be acceptable.  if something is hotter, then hell isn’t quite so bad, huh?

it also goes to the use of “i’m starved” and “i’m dying of thirst” and stuff like that.  my family is very involved in work with AIDS orphans and i don’t want my kids’ memories of seeing real starvation and dying to be tainted by something like needing a glass of gatorade or something.

i guess where some of the other words we don’t use (like the one in question in this post) and the big vulgar one and other crude ones are in my estimation is just that - crude and vulgar and unnecessary to have flying around my house.  there’s no need for them.  there’s other words that can be used if we need to express a thought - even if it needs a little more kick to express how strong we feel.

there’s simply better words than these.

Interesting post.  I’m 22, on a church staff, and am quite guilty of using both “sucks” and “freakin/friggin/etc.” Now, for me, these are euphamisms that I have unconciously adopted after becoming a Christian because my mouth used to be a little dirty before.  My parents cussed like sailors and despite their threats those words became part of my normal vocabulary.

I’m kind of torn over the issue of whether or not these words should be in my vocabulary.  There is just so much more emphasis and meaning when I say something “sucked” than when I say something “stinked.” I realize the same could be said of contemporary cus words...but even some of them were intentionally developed as euphamisms for even earlier curses and now have simply taken their place as the present curse.  Round and round we go.

Now I would never use these words in a sermon (if I preached)...but only because I know some older generations assign a different meaning to those words and it would be disrespectful to them even if those my age wouldn’t even blink.

I also completely understand parents telling their kids not to use certain euphamisms like suck.  I may even find myself doing that one day.  But I would offer that context is a HUGE pretext for what I say.  In other words, I choose not to use certain words when talking with my grandparents that I could care less about using with my friends.  My grandma is insulted by the word “poop” if that gives you any frame of reference.  Do you have an issue with “poop”, Todd?  hehe.

But this same generation (at least in my family) is also offended by using ANY word, proper or improper, that refers to “certain body parts.” ANY.

I think curses will always be around and will be different for different generations.  But changing your speech to honor another’s context is, in my opinion, a way of honoring God.  Did that make sense?

Context.  Context.  Context.

Exactly… heck, gosh, gosh dang, all ephamism.  That is true.

Don’t have trouble with the word poop.  Another big word I hear teens say all the time is ‘crap’.  Doesn’t bother me as much; but still; not a nice sounding word.

Todd

Heh.

I can’t believe I forgot crap.  I use that all the time not even realizing.

I know several people who watch sci-fi shows like Farscape and Battlestar Galactica where each show’s “world” has completely different curses and slang.  I’ve always thought that was a clever way of getting around censors.  But it gets kinda scary for me when these people actually start using that same show’s language.  I just can’t take them seriously.  heh.

Todd,

Out of curiosity how do condone endorsing churchmarketingsucks.com after this post?

Ok...i’m of the genration of sucks, Friggin, ETC. the shirt does not bother m, because the word has change in context from a couple of generations.  some words change from good to bad, like the term for a bundle of sticks and a homosexual, or being happy and gay.  The shirt of for a their generation, as a attention getter, its not ment for my parents, but its a bold way for students to express thier faith in thier way, not in our Tradionial ways. thier are alot of stories in the Bible that would be controversial t-shirts, like Jesus Saves Whores”..ok tha’s alitte extreme, but this genration is communicating differnt, we can help clean up some of that using our lense of experince or embrassed studnets expressing thier faith in a world that has such a wide spectrum of vaules, beiefs, ETC. so in short, the shirt rocks!
~Storm7

Yeah, we just had this long discussion on the meaning of words over on the ‘fundamentalism’ topic. 

I understand the meaning of words change.  That’s why I really don’t want to be called a fundamentalist.

So… let me as you this.  When people use the word ‘sucks’ today, do they think of it as just an expression; or do they think of it as a euphamism for oral sex?  My guess is that some who use the word these days do not know from whense it came or what it means?  Could I be wrong?

Todd

This is one of those that I could easily argue either way.  On the one hand, we hit our thumb with a hammer and scream OUCH!!!!  If in our heart we are not reacting to pain but thinking all sorts of evil about the hammer, the nail, the kid who was holding the board and let it slip, what difference does it matter what word we used.  One of Jesus’ points in the Sermon on the Mount was that the heart is the measure of sin, not just the actions. 

On the other hand, our preacher (previous church) used the pharse screwed up pretty regularly.  In todays day, that phrase is pretty tame and compared to his past, that phrase was really tame.  But one of our elders came up to him one day and said, “when you you say screwed up, our older members here f***ed up.” He actually said the word but I star it out here because of the audience of your blog.  It is not appropriate.

We have to take into consideration our audience.  I use the word crap a lot.  In my mind, crap means junk, not a pile of dog stuff.  But I am careful not to use that word when speaking with older people because in their mind they see a pile of dog stuff and I might as well of said Sh*t.

Paul said he bacame all the things to all people, that means knowing your audience and speaking appropriately.  Should we encourage these questionable words?  Probably not.  Should we make a big deal about words that ultimately are just cultural anyways?  I don’t think so either.  Americans constantly joke about the word bloody.  I type it here and find nothing wrong with it at all.  Most of you will find nothing wrong with it.  But British people would probably have prefered me type out f**k than bloody.  In fact a couple of british ministers I have met say damn and hell pretty frequently but took great offense at bloody.

not bothered by the word or the shirt.  I prefer that shirt over one mimmicking Burger King or Coke or Nike...you get the point.  I lead a pretty progressive church, I guess...I’ve used “crap” several times and even used “sucks” once.  Never had anyone say something about “crap” and only one person was offended by “sucks”—and frankly, she’s the type of person that I sort of like tweeking and exactly the sort of person that Campolo was egging on during his talk.

To add to what was written above...context...context...context.

i would think they think of it as something that is bad or stinks, because oral sex its own lingo! I Get amazed at how a T-shirt can cause a committee meeting or an uproar, but homless, widows, Fathers kids fade into the back. i once went to an Eastman Curtis camp and they had, a t-shirt that @ the time seemed cool, its Said “i suck rug” ok @ the time it seemed cool till the mom’s saw most of the yoth wearing the t-shirt, by the way it was the last time i saw those t-shirts, we have to laugh at ourselves sometimes. We need a blog on tattoos, talk about a war party! lol! have a great God filled day!

~Storm7

Todd:

“So… am I a fuddy duddy?”

Uh, yes and no.

There’s little doubt that to YOU the word connotes a vulgar action however, the word “sucks” has long been commandeered to mean something different to the younger users of today. 

Just as the word “gay” has been hijacked to mean something totally different today than it meant 25 - 30 years ago, “sucks,” at least to the younger generation simply implies something or someone who is inadequate or poor, as in performance or quality.

But how many words to we as adults use that our parents never would have thought about using, especially in “church” circles?  What about “crap?” How many on this forum uses that word with relative frequency?  I’ve heard it used intensely by staff members from various “churches,” where no one seems to matter.

It’s just more of the desensitizing of our culture.