Orginally published on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 at 10:19 AM
by Todd Rhoades
Yesterday, Brad left a comment here on the blog that I wanted to respond to. Brad wrote: After reading the blog for a year or so now, you seem to be very passionate about the multisite church concept - what’s the story...I am always intrigued by what make people ‘go’ - and this seems to be a pretty important deal to you - so shed some light for me, an associate pastor, who’s church is considering launching another site, on what you like/dislike about the "multisite" concept…
Great question. And a fair one as well. I do try to cover the multi-site movement pretty closely here at the MMIBlog; and I'll try to explain why. Doing so has caused me to really consider why I like and support the multi-site concept. (This is mostly off the top of my head, so please excuse any typos)
1. Multi-site Churches are growing Churches
I've been nailed so many times here at the blog for defending multi-site churches; but the bottom line is (in my opinion) multisite churches are getting the job done. Many churches that have adopted the multi-site format are simply growing and making disciples at a very rapid pace.
This quickly brings me to the topic of criticism. Those opposed to the multi-site format have a ton of criticism to throw out:
--The egocentric mega-church multi-site pastor (I've yet to meet one);
--The lack of training of leaders and empowering leaders in the multi-site movement (leveled mostly by people that have never attended a multi-site... it takes just as many people, if not more) to pull off a satellite campus).
--The feeling that only one person is 'gifted' enough to speak. In fact, many multi-site churches use teaching 'teams' and on-site campus pastors who speak occasionally. Actually, the gift of communicating is an important skill... maybe some focus should be put on the number of pastors who bore their churches to death week after week.
--The feeling that multi-sites should just plant churches if they want to expand the Kingdom. (I'll discuss why the multi-site model actually works better (in many cases) than traditional church plants, and why.
--That people won't sit, watch, learn and grow from teaching on a screen. That's just not true. Believe it or not, they do.
--That it's not right that people don't have access to their pastor. Let's face it... if you're in a church over 100; you have increasingly limited access to your lead pastor. Multi-sites don't just leave this void, they fill it with a campus pastor or other staff that meet the needs of the people just like a 'regular' church.
--That multi-site churches are 'church-lite'; or don't teach a valid message. Many go as far as to say that converts and disciples made at multi-sites aren't 'true disciples' because the message they hear is only a feel good 'what's in it for me' message that leads to non-redeeming faith in something other than God's Son. I've just not found this to be the case. Some multi-sites even buck the trend... 45 minute messages; expository preaching; etc.
OK... enough about the critics. Here's my stance... Rick Warren said it well at the Leadership Summit this year... the public body of Christ has lost it's arms and legs and the only thing that's left is a mouth. Many times, I think the Christian community (and pastors in general) are nothing but a mouth for the things we are against. I hate that. I'd rather be part of something that is positive. And that's the main reason I and passionate about the multi-site movement. Here's my experience:
Multi-site Churches are passionate for the lost.
Critics can argue methodology, theology, financial aspects, personality aspects, and other things all day long. But many times I wonder what the purpose of all the criticism is. Sometimes I think it's jealousy (they're being successful and I'm not). Sometimes I just think its ignorance (I don't understand it and it's different, so I'm against it). And sometimes I think it's just people talking about things they have never investigated. For example, saying that multi-site churches are not making disciples and have egotistical pastors is a moot point if you've never even attended a multi-site church to experience it for yourself.
Multi-site Churches are passionate for the lost. I like that. And it's a team I want to be a part of.
OK... this is getting long (as I'm just going off the top of my head).
A couple other things I like about the multi-site model:
2. I like worship options.
As a former worship pastor; I do like the multiple worship styled venue options. Things were so much easier 25 years ago when there was one style: traditional. Like it or not, our culture has changed; and offering different worship styles is a great tool in breaking the ice with people. Think that's not so? Take yourself out of your own worship setting and pick one that would be opposite of your personal taste. Now picture yourself worshipping in that service for a year. Could you do that? What would your attitude be? I can worship in any style (and I like just about all styles); but I have a preference. And my preference really helps me move into God's presence in an even deeper way. If your truthful, your worship preference probabably does the same. Multi-sites have this luxury of formatting their services in greater ways to reach who they're going after. All without sacrificing the main message and theme of the service.
3. Multi-Sites Just Make Sense In So Many Ways
Multi-sites just make sense in a lot of stewardship ways. Multi-sites can share staff members. Multi-sites can save money on overhead in all kinds of ways just because of simple 'economy of scale'. Multi-sites can save money on all kinds of things that smaller, independant churches cannot because there is less duplicating of tasks. Seacoast Church, for example, can start a new campus for as little as $75,000. Try doing that with a that with a traditional church plant.
I realize this is a rambling rather than a 'ready to be published' treatus. And I'm not sure that I really even said all I wanted to say. To those involved in multi-sites; all the North Coasts, Seacoasts, LifeChurch.tvs, Buckheads, Community Christians, Saddlebacks, and others... I say, "Keep up the great work!" Let's see where this mult-site movement goes and how many thousands of lives will be brought into the Kingdom as a result!
These are exciting days!
Todd
Discussion: Please feel free to respond to specific points if you like. We'll not turn this into a full-blown debate on multi-sites though... we've been there; done that (and I've got the scars to prove it). Just check the archives.
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There are 34 Comments:
Todd,
I think it is awesome that you are helping shed some light on Multi-site ministry. As an associate pastor at a Multi-site ministry, our church has 3 campuses, I have found it to be an absolutely awesome experience. I have been at this campus since it’s conception and public launch with about 30 people. Today 21/2 years later we are having over 650 in weekend atendance at our campus. The most amazing thing is that in 21/2 years we have never had a service that we did not see 3 or 4 sometimes a dozen or more people come to Christ.
We function from a “one church, with many campuses” philosphy. We have a bidirectional feed that makes things interactive between campuses when needed. But that aside, it allows us to have a “real” influence into the communities where our campuses are located. The “why” behind what we do is simply to be able to influence our entire city and the surrounding communities for God. We have found that in order to truly accomplish our mission, we needed to be in those communities in a real way. Having multiple campuses gives us that opportunity.
Keep sharing on this topic, I think as Body of Christ we need to evaluate our plans often. Are we accomplishing what we say we have set our hands to the plow to d? If not, maybe we just need to adjust our plans a bit. The mission never changes, but often as we go, our plans must change. Change is a good thing.
Chris says:
“To say that those leaders will never be “higher” than the Senior Pastor is a straw-man argument. Every organization has some sort of hierarchy. I see leaders throughout the Bible, many of whom were at the “top”.”
Are you referring to the Catholic Church, and Peter as the first Pope who ruled over everyone? (Of course, being a former Catholic, I don’t buy this version of history.)
I also don’t think you are referring to the Apostle Paul. I’d say he was a church planter, not a multi-site or mega-Pastor. If you want to support a model like the Apostle Paul, I would heartily agree.
I don’t know which Christian leaders you are referring to from the Bible. I think Jesus taught the opposite of the hierarchial system.
Matthew 23:9-11
And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant.
...Bernie
http://www.freegoodnews.com
Once again, the positives are specific and first-hand, but the only criticisms seem to be non-specific and hypothetical.
If there is a specific multi-site church, or leadership of a specific multi-site, that warrants criticism, then let’s hear it in its context. If you have no first-hand knowledge of specific faults, what is the constructive value (that’s what we’re looking for, isn’t it?) of suppositional negatives?
If the multi-site model/methodology itself is unbiblical - contrary to the wishes of God’s Spirit - then wouldn’t it be a case of the multi-site model constituting “a house divided against itself [that] cannot stand” - as Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees when he was accused of casting out demons by Beelzebub?
So far, EVERY first-hand experience described here has been positive, God-honoring, Christ-adoring, kingdom-building, life-restoring.
The evidence presented here clearly indicates that multi-site churches are “robbing Satan’s housel.” (Matt. 12:29) And that is a praise-worthy thing.
I personally prefer the Mother-daughter church planting model. There are different models there. The best model is when the mother church is able to purchase land, and even the church building for the new daughter church. The staff can still be part of the mother church, but there will be a new preaching pastor at the new daugher church. I can give a good example of that in Kansas City, but I better not.
Ove Johnsson
I find it difficult to see why there is any real criticiszm about the planting of ministries. Not every church is equipped to do it however those that are God Bless them. Those who are not God Bless them as well. I believe we all just need to thank God for how he uses us all to accomplish the full work of the kingdom. Our church was very traditional up until about 8 years ago when God began to shift and re-create the church. We are now about a year from planting another church and are looking forward to the challenge and the results that shall manifest from this endeavor. Please pray for M.H.C as we do what God has instructed us all to d, spread the gospel
Tony
Interesting....
We are currently planting our first campus in a community which has no church presently. There will be no stealing sheep here! Many are distracted by the video venue church. for an alternative try CCC’s “Big Idea”. There is a preacher at each campus. Thanks for the “Big Discussion”!
“--The egocentric mega-church multi-site pastor (I’ve yet to meet one);”
Perhaps you’re not looking hard enough. Or maybe I don’t know the real definition of ecocentric.
Does this qualify:
1. Insistant on 6 or 7 remote churches, K-6 school this 2006 year, middle school within a couple years and high school a couple more. Youth ranch, bible college and 5000 seat santuary. (public knowledge) - all the while not releasing the numbers on the 2.5 million challenge pledge for this year (and never releasing the prior years 3 million challenge pledge) for the current 77k sq. ft. building. (or he has to re-fi the loans, not public knowledge)
2. All leadership at these churches (direct quote from pastor) ‘must get in line with me’
3. Salary unknown by almost anyone, I know it to be in the six figures (the second set of them). His son (22 yrs old) is also in six figures as is his son-in-law. (known from my access in the IT system there)
4. He says jump and you say how high, even at 2am or 3am after having worked 70 hours that week and it being your “day” off or you’re fired. (direct quote of a current pastor and seen in action during a late fellowship night with two pastors from the church myself)
5. Not releasing giving data unless person signs agreements, is already a tither and meets with Senior pastor directly. (from current staff member)
6. Spouces of male employees are treated as free employees some compensated for 10 or 20 hours of the 30 to 60 they work. (public evidence, one even complained to me - unprompted - about always being tired and never seeing her husband or dad seeing their children)
7. Pushes for radio, tv, international exposure (just got a ‘deal’ to have our broadcast translated in Arabic and broadcast on cyprus and a new asian deal) - none of this is even mentioned to the flock until after the ink is dry and the first broadcast is set to happen. (public knowledge after the fact)
8. Lunches from Pastor usually correspond to the money taps in the congregation (the business members who contribute a lot) (he talks about this frequently, perhaps he also meets with the rank and file, but if he does, I don’t know about it and I know WAY more then I want to).
9. True hands/feet work just recently got started (i.e. money leaving the church without any ‘return’ to the church in regards to people coming into the church) due to one pastor (who is paid squat and gets barely any public support from the senior pastor)
10. Mentions from his pulpit that other churches don’t like his plans to move into ‘their area’ and cause him trouble. (public knowledge)
11. High turnover rate in staff and laypersons. (we’ve doubled in size - we should have more workers, but we have less, in raw numbers, then before) - observation.
12. People are asked to leave if they disagree with the pastor. (know two people directly who this impacted, know of one upper level pastor who split the church over this and another who they prayed would leave so senior pastor’s daughter could run the music minstry)
If you’re thinking, am I still there - yes, we made committments to the flock to minister to them with our term being until the end of this school year. At such time, we’ll be evaluating is we’re just hyper sensative or we need to leave.
Paul, ever consider applying Matt. 18 to the Pastor… confronting him directly? Please do so, for the sake of others. Likely, if he’s as you say, he won’t have “time” to meet with you. Maybe you should do it now, while you are a stake-holder (he’s depending on your ministry). He also has a committment to you, to be your faithful leader. Ask him who determines his salary, and how it’s justified. You have a right to know since you are a ministry partner and donor. Most people are naive about this, and abusive Pastors love that fact.
Check out this media-ministry salary study (Excel Spreadsheet):
http://www.freegoodnews.com/form_990/hagee_spreadsheet.xls
...Bernie
PS: Yes, confront him about all the other issues as well. Maybe pick the top 2 most serious issues only, to focus. He is not beyond reproach; he’s supposed to ACT beyond reproach. Be a reformer. Jesus asked many of the churches in Revelation to reform. Don’t join the timid ranks, who cut-bait and run, because they are cowards.
Bernie,
Yes I have. My dad, whom I respect and he is my spiritual hero, advised me to be careful and use only scripture. One of the exiting church members commented that it would be fruitless as they’d witnessed the impact of critical comments to the pastor and then the comments from the pastor about the person. Other people in unrelated comments to this mention that pastor doesn’t tolerate any negative comments (i.e. critical). From the pulpit, pastor makes comments like “I learned not to be critical of anyone who I’m not doing more then” and “I get people kicking me in the back all the time, I’ve learned to ignore them as they are just petty/jealous/misguided/from satan/etc”
So in regards to Matt 18:15+, I’d be asked to leave, at best, I would be kicked out of all ministry work I do as would my wife. This would harm her seriously (I was raised Christian, departed for 15 years and returned when I started going to this church, she never went to church prior to this and was baptised here).
My first responsibility is to myself, then my family, then my church. I really don’t know how to do this and do it not to get it off my chest, but rather to allow the Holy Spirit to work through me to effect a change in his heart so that he changes his ways. I know all things are possible through God - I’m short on faith that anything will change him.
PS - the church revenue is under all of the listed entries, the pay is above more then half the people.
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