Dorothy Sayers says in her essay “The Greatest Drama” that the Gospel story is…”the tale of the time when God was the underdog and got beaten, when he submitted to the conditions he had laid down and became a man like the men he had made, and the men he had made broke him and killed him. This is the dogma we find so dull--this terrifying drama of which God is the victim and hero.
If this is dull, then what, in Heaven’s name, is worthy to be called exciting? The people who hanged Christ never, to do them justice, accused him of being a bore…”

threegirldad,

are you really willing to come out and say that God is no fun?

Wow.....only in Christianity is the word “fun” a bad word...wow! 

No wonder unbelievers don’t want anything to do with us.

Enjoy (or don’t enjoy) your boring god.  The God of the Bible rescued the Israelites from Egypt so they could celebrate a feast unto the Lord. (Exodus 5:1)

The original Hebrew word for feast is chadad, which means

to hold a feast, hold a festival, make pilgrimage, keep a pilgrim-feast, celebrate, dance, stagger

It would be hard to have a festival celebration, dance and stagger without having FUN --- there I said the “F” word for Christians.

lol....wow

Rob,

I just noticed that my link to the Theopedia article didn’t work—hmmm.  I’ll paste the URL this time:

http://www.theopedia.com/List_of_God's_known_attributes

That article lists all the known attributes of God as revealed in Scripture.  It’s all well documented and worth reading.

Regarding your reference to chadad, a quick Hebrew Lexicon check shows that this word actually means, “to be sharp/be alert/be keen; to sharpen; to be sharpened.” Consider Proverbs 27:17:

Iron sharpens iron,
and one man sharpens another. (ESV)

Regardless, do you know of a scriptural passage which either states or implies that God is like a feast, a festival, a celebration, or a dance?  If so, please provide it.

And in your zeal to make your point, please don’t put words into my mouth.  It’s quite bad manners.  I never said that “in Christianity...’fun’ [is] a bad word.” Perhaps you have me confused with some other commenter.

threegirldad - I’m sorry the word was “chagag” not “chadad” --- I typed the wrong word.  You can look it up in Exodus 5:1 - Feast means chagag…

Thanks for checking. 

This text does not imply that God is a festival but obviously, God had no problem with the people celebrating a Festival in his Honor.

In regards to the “F” word = FUN, I was saying it to anyone that believes that enjoying themselves (being entertained) in worship is a sin, i didn’t mean it towards you specifically.

I don’t mean any personal offense, I’m just tired of people believing that Worship must be some boring spectacle.  The God I serve is Alive and Well.  He is Fun and the new life I’ve found in him is joyful and fun too.  We ought to enjoy ourselves in worship.

What amazes me is that Christians believe that we must go to secular in order to enjoy ourselves (be entertained).  This shouldn’t be. Our worship experience should be the most joyous and entertaining celebrations we participate in. 

Like I mentioned before - if I kiss my wife, I do it for her, but there’s no doubt that I enjoy the experience as well.  In fact if I don’t enjoy the experience you would be right to question my love and devotion to her.

I know the word “Fun” sounds simplistic but it’s really the best way to describe worship for me.

Peter:

“You are confusing the goal with the outcome. If I lead you in musical worship with the intention in mind of merely entertaining, and yet you enter into real true worship, then even though my purpose is flawed, the outcome is good.”

That goes back in part to the flawed, “means to an end,” pragmatic philosophy widespread in modern churches.  The goal of entering into church for worship should be exactly for that--worship of God for His glory.  It should not be for self-directed entertainment, even if it causes other people to engage in worship.

If we focus on the resultant and dismiss the cause, this can lead to all sorts of unbiblical deviations.  By that logic, a stripper could be doing her business on stage and a man could find the spirit of worship in the process. 

Now, if we focus on worship and some individual is entertained in the worship, hey, no biggie--it’s a bonus.  Or, if the goal is worship and some individual fails to worship, that happens, too, but the focus remained on God, He is glorified, and the purpose of worship is fulfilled. 

--
CS

Worship is all we do, all we say, within our hearts and minds.  It is about reverence, it is about celebrating, it is about declaration and adoration.  It is when we brag on the size, character and track record of our God.  If that isn’t fun then I don’t want to do it.  Sometimes it seems we keep splitting hairs on stuff that when we get down to it we are assuming what is in the heart of another.  IDK crazy if you ask me.

Rob,
What do you mean by “the best”?  The best electronics?  The best jumbotron?  What happens then if you are in a poor, small church with no access or means to get to “the best”?  Is your worship then lacking, because you can’t afford all the bells and whistles?  What happens when what is cool changes? Jesus preached the truth.  He didn’t market, He didn’t have target groups, He didn’t do demographic studies to find out what people felt they needed, and how He might best present Himself. He did it with a few rag-tag followers, many of whom were fishermen, not the CEO’s of a fishing company.  By worldly standards, probably not the best. By worldly standards, the early Christians were miserable flops, imprisoned, killed and persecuted. They didn’t do worshiptainment and I doubt it was much fun. God’s Word convicts, challenges, and changes lives on it’s own.  We don’t need to help it along to make it more fun.

Suzanne,

By best I mean the best we’ve got to offer, not the best some rich guy’s got to offer.  If someone can offer something greater to God, then let them offer it.  I won’t criticize them for giving it to God.  However, I need to give God the best I’ve got .

Melody,

I totally agree with you that the focus of worship is God.  Yet there’s no doubt that if we’re truly worshipping God we will enjoy the experience. 

As I stated before, if churches are singing songs to themselves, that would be wrong but I don’t think most churches are doing that. 

I’d like to give the body of Christ the benefit of the doubt that they are singing songs that exalt God, not themselves.

Suzanne and Bonnie,

You’re both assuming that my church has all the bells and whistles or that I come from a place that had the bells and whistles and I don’t.

The best church, I’ve ever been in was a smaller church.  However, the worship service was entertaining (engaging and enthusiastic). 

Entertainment is not bad, having fun in church is not bad. 

It really all comes down to our attitude in worship.  Are we self focused or are we God focused?  And the reality is that our churches can pride themselves with being unentertaining, yet their worship be self-focused.

Rob, I am not making an assumption about your church—I am commenting on the prevailing attitude in many American churches that we need the latest in technology because we are entertaining God on Sunday mornings and because unbelievers won’t come if they think God is “boring.” I am quite sure that God doesn’t need us to entertain Him, and an unbeliever’s heart isn’t changed by being entertained—it is changed only by God.  With a changed heart, no service can ever be boring! 

We already exist for His pleasure and what He expects from us is that we will worship Him with reverence and awe.  He expects us to love Him with all our heart, all our soul, and all our strength.  Included in that love is a respectful fear of His power and greatness.  We don’t get to choose the circumstances under which we are willing to honor and glorify Him.  If we are unwilling to worship Him because church is “boring” without entertainment, then we have put ourselves before Him—in a sense, we have become our own god because what we want is more important than what He wants.

It is easy to worship Him when we perceive Him as being fun, but God is not our “buddy.” He is our Creator and our Father and He can bring us to our knees at any moment.  He will give us trials to test our faith and make us strong, and it is during these times when our love for Him truly becomes apparent. 

I am not implying that worship can’t or shouldn’t be enjoyable.  I thoroughly enjoy our worship services.  I love to sing praises to our Lord and I always look forward to Pastor John’s sermon because he is teaching me more about God’s Word.  But whether I enjoy it is not dependent upon meeting my felt needs for fun or entertainment.  I enjoy it because I am moved by the Spirit through singing God’s praises and hearing His Word, and all I need for that is a heart that is open, a mouth that can sing, and ears that can hear.

But Peter, remember that you are defining “excellent” by the world’s standards.  We need to keep in mind that God does not use our standards and that we are to conform to His ways rather than expecting Him to conform to ours.  Quite often, His ways are the opposite of what we see the world doing.  To paraphrase Isaiah 55:8, His thoughts are not our thoughts, and His ways are not our ways.

Bonnie,

God is both my friend and my maker.  It is not an either or… As for worship being boring, that is simply not true.  Some services are so boring that drying paint is more inviting.  Why not do all of our services in Latin with Gregorian chants?  Better yet, why not do them in Hebrew and Greek?  Because we would be bored out of our minds no matter the condition of our hearts unless of course we love God enough to learn to speak the holy languages of Latin, Greek or Hebrew. 

My 14 year old, who loves God deeply does not speak the language of hymnals and overheads.  She has grown up in an internet, digital age.  Her school is digital, the phone, the computer and much more.  This is not merely entertainment, it is a new language in our world.  She has an open heart and ears but simply does not speak in a language of worship that is 200 years old. 

Bonnie with all due respect you are doing exactly what you are accusing peter of.  Using human standards for excellence.  Do you think when the Jewish people came to the temple to worship that any schmo with a good heart could bring his harp and lyre and play?  Heck no, because the worship of God demanded excellence.  It demanded a “performance” worthy of the majesty of God.  Too many people criticize their brothers and sisters in Christ for using bands, electronics, digital projectors and such… but I am convinced it is was available in the days of David, he would have used it.  If it was available in the days of Jesus, he would have used it.  Why?  Because f it was available in those day, it would have been a part of the language of those days.

Peter, His standards are different.  They are not based on our performance in front of others—they are based on what’s in our hearts.  Of course God-given talents and abilities should be used to God’s glory and to the benefit of others, but I think He would see more “excellence” in the off-key songs of a weeping mother who continues to sing His praises even though she has just lost a child, than He would see in the “perfect” songs of a talented musician whose faith had not been tested.  I am not implying that your faith has never been tested.  I am pointing out the difference between excellence that is measurable to us as humans, and excellence that only God can know and see because His ways are higher than our ways.