When Christian Marketing Collides with Family Values
- Posted on February 08, 2006
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- (47) comments
I stopped dead in my tracks when my eyes saw this picture on the cover of Christian Retailing Magazine this month.
Am I a fuddy-duddy?
I know that the word 'sucks' has gained wide-spread acceptance in the Christian community as of late. Heck, I even have a link to ChurchMarketingSucks.com here on this blog.
But it's not a word that I honestly use much; and am still startled sometimes when those around me throw it around as casually as they do.
Let me just say this: I don't allow my kids to use the word 'sucks'. And I definitely wouldn't allow them to wear it on a T-shirt.
It could just by my traditional, fundy background. It might be that I'm not keen on all the hip young talk. Or it might be that I actually remember what the word 'sucks' meant when I was in high school back in the eighties.
My kid's friends say it freely (I know because they've say it around me). But I've tried to key my kids on to a 'higher standard' that I expect from them. I hope they oblige their father.
And now, a "Christian" T-shirt comes out to help me along in my parenting. Hell Sucks. (or as they promote it on their website H***Sucks. They're description:
"We had to do it. White lettering on black is simple and straight-forward. We also carry one with red lettering on a black tee with red stitching. Now, if we can only get up the nerve to say it!"
So... am I a fuddy duddy? How do you adjust when even the Christian culture goes a step too far (in your or my opinion?)
What rules do you have for language in your family? in your youth group? in your church? (the other words that we hear ALL THE TIME that we don't allow are things like 'freakin', 'frickin', or 'friggin'.) Those words are off limits at our house (at least with the kids around!)
Love to hear your input on this one!
Todd
Comments
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Todd Rhoades on Wed, February 08, 2006
Yeah, we just had this long discussion on the meaning of words over on the ‘fundamentalism’ topic.
I understand the meaning of words change. That’s why I really don’t want to be called a fundamentalist.
So… let me as you this. When people use the word ‘sucks’ today, do they think of it as just an expression; or do they think of it as a euphamism for oral sex? My guess is that some who use the word these days do not know from whense it came or what it means? Could I be wrong?
Todd
Jade on Wed, February 08, 2006
I see the point. Shirt made me laugh. I come also from the generation who uses the word suck. It really is a word I would like to take out of my vocab. I guess I never thought about the meaning behind the word. Hmm.
Chris Marsden on Wed, February 08, 2006
This is one of those that I could easily argue either way. On the one hand, we hit our thumb with a hammer and scream OUCH!!!! If in our heart we are not reacting to pain but thinking all sorts of evil about the hammer, the nail, the kid who was holding the board and let it slip, what difference does it matter what word we used. One of Jesus’ points in the Sermon on the Mount was that the heart is the measure of sin, not just the actions.
On the other hand, our preacher (previous church) used the pharse screwed up pretty regularly. In todays day, that phrase is pretty tame and compared to his past, that phrase was really tame. But one of our elders came up to him one day and said, “when you you say screwed up, our older members here f***ed up.” He actually said the word but I star it out here because of the audience of your blog. It is not appropriate.
We have to take into consideration our audience. I use the word crap a lot. In my mind, crap means junk, not a pile of dog stuff. But I am careful not to use that word when speaking with older people because in their mind they see a pile of dog stuff and I might as well of said Sh*t.
Paul said he bacame all the things to all people, that means knowing your audience and speaking appropriately. Should we encourage these questionable words? Probably not. Should we make a big deal about words that ultimately are just cultural anyways? I don’t think so either. Americans constantly joke about the word bloody. I type it here and find nothing wrong with it at all. Most of you will find nothing wrong with it. But British people would probably have prefered me type out f**k than bloody. In fact a couple of british ministers I have met say damn and hell pretty frequently but took great offense at bloody.
Ian on Wed, February 08, 2006
We are together in the fact we are raising or children to avoid those words. That’s good. But since I have been quite outspoken on my own blog about churchmarketingsucks and pimpmychurch I was hoping you were going to take the next step and drop them from your must read blogs. The content may be great but I hear there are some decent articles in Playboy too. In fact I vowed when I started my blog that if those 2 websites disappear so would Raiders. You can get the ball rolling and put the pressure on by dropping them Todd. Your site is very influential. ROTLC would be history in the blogosphere.
matt f on Wed, February 08, 2006
not bothered by the word or the shirt. I prefer that shirt over one mimmicking Burger King or Coke or Nike…you get the point. I lead a pretty progressive church, I guess…I’ve used “crap” several times and even used “sucks” once. Never had anyone say something about “crap” and only one person was offended by “sucks”—and frankly, she’s the type of person that I sort of like tweeking and exactly the sort of person that Campolo was egging on during his talk.
To add to what was written above…context…context…context.
Julie on Wed, February 08, 2006
I had no idea “suck” was a euphamism for anything…I thought it was an emphatic “stinks”.
Nonetheless, I don’t use it. I remember back to my first job out of college: my sister called to tell me my little hand held vacuum cleaner didn’t work. I said “sure it sucks” and got the strangest look from my boss…so I quit using the word. I blush now to realize what he thought!
Storm7 on Wed, February 08, 2006
i would think they think of it as something that is bad or stinks, because oral sex its own lingo! I Get amazed at how a T-shirt can cause a committee meeting or an uproar, but homless, widows, Fathers kids fade into the back. i once went to an Eastman Curtis camp and they had, a t-shirt that @ the time seemed cool, its Said “i suck rug” ok @ the time it seemed cool till the mom’s saw most of the yoth wearing the t-shirt, by the way it was the last time i saw those t-shirts, we have to laugh at ourselves sometimes. We need a blog on tattoos, talk about a war party! lol! have a great God filled day!
~Storm7
Wendi on Wed, February 08, 2006
I’ll weigh in as another parent who didn’t allow the word sucks, stupid, pissed off, friggin and several others. We didn’t let our kids watch The Simpsons and screened all the PG13 movies we allowed. Now they are 27 and 25 years old. They say all the words we didn’t allow. I’m quite sure that somewhere around Jr. High these words (and worse) started slipping out behind our backs. One evening they confessed to now owning DVDs of all the seasons of The Simpsons.
Some might think we parented poorly because our values didn’t “stick.” (One son is, at the moment, a prodigal - so our faith values are being questioned, and I believe will become his own eventually). Like any parent of grown kids, there are things we would do differently if we knew then what we know now. However, the “values” which we attempted to teach our kids by forbidding these words did indeed “stick.” They are values which reflect treating people with honor and dignity, respecting the difference between people, submitting our “rights” to others. Our boys have these values, which is why they don’t use those words around us. They know that we know better, and that we can’t put a bar of soap in their mouth anymore. That is what the elder at Chris’ church was explaining to the Sr. Pastor. Having some differences in the way we talk isn’t being duplicitous, it’s being respectful.
Wendi
Ricky on Wed, February 08, 2006
Todd:
“So… am I a fuddy duddy?”
Uh, yes and no.
There’s little doubt that to YOU the word connotes a vulgar action however, the word “sucks” has long been commandeered to mean something different to the younger users of today.
Just as the word “gay” has been hijacked to mean something totally different today than it meant 25 - 30 years ago, “sucks,” at least to the younger generation simply implies something or someone who is inadequate or poor, as in performance or quality.
But how many words to we as adults use that our parents never would have thought about using, especially in “church” circles? What about “crap?” How many on this forum uses that word with relative frequency? I’ve heard it used intensely by staff members from various “churches,” where no one seems to matter.
It’s just more of the desensitizing of our culture.
Bernie Dehler on Wed, February 08, 2006
My older sister banned the word “sucks” from her family, and I never knew why… til Todd disclosed it. I’m 43… I think I barely missed that generational euphamism… or maybe the area I grew-up in missed it… or maybe I was just sheltered…
...Bernie
Bernie Dehler on Wed, February 08, 2006
Todd-
Another ministry is selling a shirt saying “Porn Sucks.”
See it here:
http://www.xxxchurch.com/x3store/product.asp?product_ID=1011
...Bernie
FeatherIron on Wed, February 08, 2006
I am kinda riding the fence on this one, (not known to be a good place for a christian but that is where I am.) In my studies of Tolkien and Lewis, I have ran across many writings about the changing of meaning of many words over time. In that light I can give it to the Mosiac generation that it may not mean now what it did to us Gen X-ers. On the other hand, it’s a word use to shock, emphasize and sell to a generation that is saturated by computers,I-pods and Cell phones. Give it to them in fast snippets because the depth is not there. Feed a shallow generation shallow theology-“hell Sucks” and you will lose the next generation. That is the state of the church youth today and it saddens me greatly.
Todd Rhoades on Wed, February 08, 2006
I’m shocked that some here didn’t know the connotation or meaning of ‘sucks’. I think that Ricky is right (did I say that?!!?)… I think that many people, especially young people, don’t really realize where the meaning comes from, they just use it as another term for ‘stinks’.
Sorry to have ruined some of your innocence. :( Especially yours, Bernie. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Anyway… this was a big word at my high school. There was even a hand signal that went with it to make it even more vulgar. I know how it was used then; and guess I just would like my kids to stay away from it; even though it means something different now to most.
Back then, it wasn’t something you said about things; but rather about people… usually to other guys to insinuate their level of gayness. (Back then, being gay was bad).
Oh well… enough on this.
Todd
Peter Hamm on Thu, February 09, 2006
I’m trying not to use this word, and I don’t think I would ever wear something that said it. I remember almost 20 years ago that you could get a shirt at Undercover’s shows that said “Sin sucks”, so people have been “changing the meaning” of the word for a lot longer than some of us think. The kids in our youth group use it with pretty good frequency. They don’t know it’s original connotation, and I have decided I’m not gonna be the guy who explains that to them.
The word’s meaning has been hijacked, kinda like another word we recently debated abou the meaning of here… one that begins with “fun”… (but we won’t go down that road again… right?)
http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/wink.gif
danny on Thu, February 09, 2006
two words>>>>>>. RE LAX!!!!! lol
This seems to be another one of those situations that I find myself thinking, let’s not forget that God looks on the heart, not the outward appearance. This is not the end of the world. It reminds me a little of a story in the book “Classic Christianity” where a deacon’s wife from the big baptist church in town has been taken to the Psych ward of a hospital and is basically curled up in the fetal position. None of the doctor’s can get her to respond. They finally call Bob George (the author and one of her pastors) to see if he can make some headway with her. Long story short. Her daughter is getting married and decides to have the reception at the country club w/an open bar instead of the fellowship hall at the church. The mom has totally freaked out at how she will now be perceived by her church friends as having failed to raise her daughter “in the Lord” the way she should and has visions of drunk people ruining her day. Bob reminds her that, first of all, it’s her DAUGHTER’S day, not hers, and secondly her priority is her relationship with her daugher LONG after the wedding. She took some time to process TRUTH and not feelings based on tradition and finally relaxed. Now, I know this isn’t exactly the same thing. I have 2 sons (15 and 9). The 15 year old will say it on occasion, the 9 year old gets in trouble when he does. I think it is fine to shoot for a “higher way” and all that, but I remember when a youth group I used to pastor began to say “hoovers” (in reference to a vacuum) to avoid getting in trouble for saying “sucks”. They were working on the outward, not really focused on the inward because the adult leaders were offended. We stopped worrying about the word and just stuck with “the REAL stuff” and before long the word had basically gone away, probably because it no longer got a rise out of the adults.
Maybe we should just let other believers live out their process, recognize all of our need for grace, pray for one another, sharpen iron when necessary on MAJOR things and relax on the little things, knowing that if we say “hoovers” and REALLY MEAN “sucks”, God still knows it although we’ve pleased all the “church ladies” we live around.
In Christ (and a little fun)
danny
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