When Christian Marketing Collides with Family Values
- Posted on February 08, 2006
- Viewed 347 times
- (47) comments
I stopped dead in my tracks when my eyes saw this picture on the cover of Christian Retailing Magazine this month.
Am I a fuddy-duddy?
I know that the word 'sucks' has gained wide-spread acceptance in the Christian community as of late. Heck, I even have a link to ChurchMarketingSucks.com here on this blog.
But it's not a word that I honestly use much; and am still startled sometimes when those around me throw it around as casually as they do.
Let me just say this: I don't allow my kids to use the word 'sucks'. And I definitely wouldn't allow them to wear it on a T-shirt.
It could just by my traditional, fundy background. It might be that I'm not keen on all the hip young talk. Or it might be that I actually remember what the word 'sucks' meant when I was in high school back in the eighties.
My kid's friends say it freely (I know because they've say it around me). But I've tried to key my kids on to a 'higher standard' that I expect from them. I hope they oblige their father.
And now, a "Christian" T-shirt comes out to help me along in my parenting. Hell Sucks. (or as they promote it on their website H***Sucks. They're description:
"We had to do it. White lettering on black is simple and straight-forward. We also carry one with red lettering on a black tee with red stitching. Now, if we can only get up the nerve to say it!"
So... am I a fuddy duddy? How do you adjust when even the Christian culture goes a step too far (in your or my opinion?)
What rules do you have for language in your family? in your youth group? in your church? (the other words that we hear ALL THE TIME that we don't allow are things like 'freakin', 'frickin', or 'friggin'.) Those words are off limits at our house (at least with the kids around!)
Love to hear your input on this one!
Todd
Comments
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danny on Thu, February 09, 2006
by the way, i think we’d all agree that for those who believe in HELL, it’s fair to say that going there would pretty much “hoover” and all the kids would get the point. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Bill on Thu, February 09, 2006
God judges the heart so do you really think it matters when you say Gosh or any of the many other alternatives to cursing?
Just a thought. It is nice to make sure we don’t use profanity around the kids, but God sees everything, thus it is seemingly okay to say it in front of God but NOT in front of our children?
Okay, sorry that was 2 thoughts.
In Christ,
Bill in K.C.
Kent on Thu, February 09, 2006
Good Points to think about Bill.
I think we use many of those phrases because we have become numb to the original meanings or what they might be a “substitute” or “alternative” for. It has become a way for us Christians to have a lingo that gels with the world, yet “technically” not using the same filth language.
Abbey on Thu, February 09, 2006
I can appreciate the sentiment behind the shirt and laugh, but because I come from the 80’s like Todd, it makes me uncomfortable to say it. Even if it does sometimes REALLY fit the moment.
The first time I heard my 3 year old say “crap” (he learned it from me) I stopped using that word.
I never swore as a kid but was a major potty-mouth as an 22-26 year old. (BC of course.) After I got saved I was really convicted of my speech and how it reflected on me - I was taught that ladies don’t use foul language and if you have to use infantile words like those to get your sentiment across it shows that perhaps you just aren’t smart enough to think of more appropriate/clever words.
I cleaned up over the years and sensitized myself to bad language. I can watch movies with the words in them but it sure would be nice if they weren’t there.
My 9 tear old is the bad language patrol in our house and he hates any “bad” words. We’re working on his understand the difference between the words that refer to body parts/activities or are closely linked to taking the Lord’s name in vein and words that just express an exclamation. Becase we grew up with suck meaning…you know. And friggin’ meaning…you know. And crap meaning the bad word for poop. (I think poop is a funny word.) Using that word helps diffuse the anger/angst of the situtation too.
Funny story - we moved and met 7th Day Adventist neighbor’s kids, ages 10 and 13. After months, they finally came over to play but left after 20 minutes. Turns out, they heard my son saying “darn” which they don’t say, and they equate it with “d*mn”. Mom explained it and said they understand that others use it, but they don’t and we all laughed and became friends, but I had to really marvel at that. I thought our standard was high - well, at least I don’t worry when my kids are at their house.
Kent on Thu, February 09, 2006
Our kids have a tendency to embrace what we do and follow are example and those we hold up as examples.
Example, I like much of Bono’s music, but when we lift him up as a “Christian Example”, we have just endorced in many ways, his way of speaking (the four letter words & all). So when out churches lift someone like him up for our children to follow, don’t get such a surprise when they start using the same language.
Tim on Thu, February 09, 2006
Darn. Gosh. Golly. Sheesh. Jeepers. All variations of words with Biblical significance (check it out at dictionary.com), but like Abbey said, probably not words we think of as cursing or taking God’s name in vain (although they probably “technically” are).
So whose standard is right? Is there an absolute standard? Or since it truly is a heart issue like Bill says, does it even really matter? Are the generational differences we’re talking about just really subtle ways of being self-righteous—I can say “heck” but you can’t say “suck”.
What it comes down to for me is that any of these words - curse words, derivations or otherwise - reflects our inability to process our emotions about a given thing in a healthy way. It’s much easier to say “darn it” than it is to say “this event made me mad because it inconvenienced me, which bothers me because I have control issues that can be traced back to….”
It’s a dishonest vocabulary for a dishonest life. Yeah, that’s a little harsh, but if everytime we said one of these words we thought about why, I might spur us to think more sincerely about our issues.
Well that was a bummer post! Here are some smiley faces to make up for it. http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Tim on Thu, February 09, 2006
sorry…“it” might spur us to think, not “I”...I don’t have time for all that spurring http://www.mondaymorninginsight.com/images/smileys/smile.gif
Randy Ehle on Thu, February 09, 2006
Interesting ... Amidst all of the comments, only one person - our host - ever mentioned a specific Bible verse. And I didn’t see too many other general references to the Bible, either. Bill in K.C. writes, “God judges the heart so do you really think it matters when you say Gosh or any of the many other alternatives to cursing?” My answer to that is a resounding “Absolutely!”
Eph. 4:29 (the verse Todd referred to) is probably the first verse that most people think of when considering this issue, and I would venture to say that most people (myself included) would use that reference to justify our own lists of words that constitute “unwholesome talk.” But the Proverbs also say a TON of stuff about our words; James addresses it. Even Jesus warned about the deadly power of words (Matthew 5:22).
My opinion is that “expletive” words betray a general laziness in communication (and yes, I do use a few every now and then). But I do agree with Bill - God is probably more concerned about the heart and less about the words. And anyone who’s been in ministry long enough knows that you don’t have to swear to tear someone down. And we must pay attention not just to our speech, but to every way we communicate. If the tongue is a fire (James 3:6), then e-mail and the internet are the winds that fan that flame and cause it to spread like wildfire.
Twenty years ago a man teaching an adult Sunday School class suggested that all “swear” words, at their core, violated the commandment about taking God’s name in vain. I wouldn’t go that far, though I do believe that the overall counsel of scripture can largely be summed up in the following points:
-be careful what you say
-don’t swear lightly (even in a court setting)
-don’t speak quickly, rashly, out of place, or too much
-use your words to build up and encourage, not to tear down
Bill on Thu, February 09, 2006
Randy I gotta check you on what you’re implying I said, you said: “But I do agree with Bill - God is probably more concerned about the heart and less about the words.”
I said: “God judges the heart so do you really think it matters when you say Gosh or any of the many other alternatives to cursing?”
I meant that God knows our motivations, our words given as alternatives for other words (curse words) do not present themselves any differently to Him, it is as if we’d gone full-steam ahead with the curse words. I said God judges the heart, not that He’s more concerned about the heart, but strictly that He judges the heart, therefore all our communication should be delivered in light of that understanding.
One final note: The way a message is perceived is often not in line with the intention in which it is given - one man’s disparaging remark is anothers call to attention and self-examination.
That is all…
In Christ,
Bill
Randy Ehle on Thu, February 09, 2006
Thanks for the check, Bill. I did misinterpret what you wrote. Sorry about that.
MiGhTyDaD on Sun, February 12, 2006
Search for the word dung in our beloved KJV, especially in 2 Kings. Whether we say dung, poop, crap or sh*t, aren’t we speaking about the same substance?
Or, look up the words piss or pisseth in the KJV. Do we not believe that these passages were as inspired as any others in our sacred scriptures?
If to say something sucks means that it is as bad as a man who performs fellatio on another man, then to me using it may be a positive thing. At least, in a way, it reinforces the wrongness (badness) of homosexual acts.
I think that sometimes we major on the minor or as The Bible says “strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.” When people are having casual sex, lying, cheating, stealing, gossiping, divorcing, and generally ignoring the God of Creation’s word, don’t we have a lot of other important work to do?
Do you want to stand out as children of light, as salt in this world? Pay your bills on time, love and discipline your children, treat others as if they are more important than yourself, love unconditionally, tithe, worship, encourage the weak, instruct the ignorant. Doing these things will further the Kingdom of God much more that being the language police ever could! Not doing these things really ... well you know ...
Todd (not THE Todd)
Rev. T. on Mon, February 13, 2006
I grew up in a house where the rule was I could say whatever I heard in MY house. My parents were born-again Christians and there lanquage was reflective of their lifestyle. I have a family of my own now and the rule STILL STANDS!
Bernie Dehler on Mon, February 13, 2006
Rev. T-
Good rule. “Values are caught, not taught.”
...Bernie
Randy Ehle on Mon, February 13, 2006
“Not THE Todd” writes, “I think that sometimes we major on the minor….” I agree. Todd also asks (probably rhetorically), “Do you want to stand out as children of light…?” I think most here would answer yes. But with that question comes another: What does that look like, practically today?
When the KJV was translated about 400 years ago, the word piss was (apparently) an accepted English term. So was “ass,” so there really wasn’t a problem when the KJV talked about someone getting off their ass. Today, however, that latter phrase has an idiomatic meaning that is very different than it was 400 years ago.
The issue here is not so much whether certain words should be universally and eternally accepted or rejected, but rather, how do the words we use today reflect God’s light in the midst of the darkness that envelopes this fallen world?
Interesting side note: My 6-year-old daughter has started to say “oh my gosh”, as she no doubt hears at school and elsewhere. That rubs me wrong, so I have started to direct her to other idioms that I find more acceptable, such as “oh my goodness” or even, as an old family friend once exclaimed, “oh my stars and garters!” Last night over dinner with friends, they shared how their 5-year-old son has picked up “oh my God” and they are steering him toward “oh my gosh” instead!
Les Smith on Wed, February 15, 2006
Randy, I’m the grandson of a deceased Spiritualist pastor (First Spiritualist Church of Dearborn, Mi.). I was saved out of an occult background, so in my house,our children would never have been allowed to say, “Oh, my stars…” The origin of that expression is astrology, so it was equivalent to profanity for our home.
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