I Don’t Like My Church Anymore
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, September 27, 2004
- Viewed 283
- (54) comments so far
It hasn?t always been this way. I used to love going to church. I would look forward to it every week. I loved the worship time, ate up the preaching and enjoyed the fellowship with the people around me. However, all this has begun to change for me lately. I?ve come to the point where I don?t want to be bothered with talking to people. It?s not that they?re not good people, it?s just that I really don?t want to talk to them. I find that I?m not as interested in the worship and preaching as I used to be. In fact, I usually find every possible way to criticize the songs we sing or the delivery of the message (that?s the effect Bible college can have on some people).
You see, the problem with all this is that I?m in ministry myself. It?s actually my job to be at the service on Sunday morning. Maybe that?s part of the problem. Maybe I?m bitter that I have to go into ?work? while other people can go and enjoy the service because they have no obligation.
There?s a larger problem involved, however, and I don?t believe it?s a problem that is uncommon to people (particularly twentysomethings, of which I am one) in the church today. You see, I walk in to the church service, sit down, cross my arms and expect God to do something in me. I expect the worship team to bring me out of my apathy. I wait for something the pastor says to catch my ear. What?s the problem with all this? It?s me. Nothing has changed in my church since the time when I enjoyed coming. I?ve changed. I?ve become more selfish. I?ve become more cynical. In fact, it?s gotten to the point where my girlfriend told me yesterday that maybe she should sit somewhere else during the service because she can sense that I don?t want to be there.
More than all this, I?ve come to expect the church to forge my spiritual development. Instead of working on my own prayer and devotional life, I want the church to do it for me. Please tell me I?m not the only one in the Body of Christ who has this problem. Please tell me there are other lazy people, who come to church on Sunday and expect to be filled up for the week ahead. Meanwhile, they have no expectation of giving anything. (I?m not talking about money either.) We aren?t willing to give of ourselves in worship. We aren?t willing to give of ourselves to each other, to minister to our friends who have hurts too (we?re not the only ones who hurt, even though we?d like to think so sometimes).
I?d like to blame all this on our American culture of selfishness. I?d like to say that I am this way because I?ve been socially conditioned by all the advertising and marketing that I?m encountered with day after day; advertising that says things like ?Have it Your Way.? Well, I do want it my way. Don?t we all? Isn?t it true that if we don?t like how things are done at one church we can just go across town (or across the street, for some of us) and find a church that suits our felt needs better? Is that what Jesus intended for His church? Did He want us to forsake our churches just to seek ?greener pastures? somewhere else? It?s true that the Church is flawed. No church is exempt from this. But instead of giving up (or becoming total cynics of every last detail) we should be working to change that which is wrong in our churches, but more than that?to change that which is wrong in ourselves. And changing what is wrong in us is probably the harder of the two. Selfishness doesn?t go away easily (trust me, I?ve still got plenty of it). How else can we work to change from selfish people to gracious and generous people other than asking for the help of the Holy Spirit? There is no other way that I know of (and I?m sure I?ve tried many) to deal with sin of every kind.
In the end, I can only blame my own sinful nature that allows me to become like I am. It?s my fault, not my church?s, that I think and act this way. Until I, and those like me, are willing to own up to this, we will continue to be unfulfilled Christians who take up space in the pews on Sunday mornings, but have nothing to contribute to the radical mission that the church is called to.
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What are your thoughts? Have you had these same feelings? Did you come to the same conclusion as Doug or something totally different? Please leave your comments by clicking the comments link below.
Oh, and by the way... you can see this whole article at the RelevantMagazine.com website now as well!
Todd
When the alarm goes off on Sunday morning, what is your attitude? A sense of excitement or a sense of foreboding? I came across a very honest, interesting and thought provoking article by Doug Tappan this week at RelevantMagazine.com. Please take a couple minutes this morning to read this… I think it will hit a nerve and challenge you as you start your week. Doug writes…
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Comments
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Ricky Roubique on Tue, September 28, 2004
Quote: “The American church runs the risk of becoming a caricature of what God originally intended.”
Too late. The American church, because of its European history of relying on the grossly inaccurate “ministry by the select” instead of the Biblical “ministry by the elect,” is tracking the same way as our European organizations: atrophy.
Quote: “May we rediscover what He wants for us on our face before Him.”
We already know what He wants for us. It’s found in the Book of Acts, et al.
Scott on Tue, September 28, 2004
This is a very interesting article. I think this 20 something needs to get married. If you realy want to be selfless, then you need to be in a situation where you not only have a great responsability to give, but are in a place where you are given to.
I am amused at this young man’s wornout position as it is similar to mine. There is one differnce though. He is in ministry and I, though called, am not. For me, I keep hearing people tell me that I have to do anything and everything except
what God asked of me. Doing the been there done that is just not going to happen with me.
Then there’s this silly notion of people who would perhaps claim to be my friend. Ask them when the last time it was that we actually done anything that friends typically do, like go to a movie, or have lunch after church service on sunday.
Another difference between me and this young man is that I have not been to church in a month due to no transportation. But then, the last time I was at church, I was sitting in the parking lot waiting for traffic to clear out. A couple young
gals were walking by in the parking lot, one looked at me and started running like I was some hideouse monster that would attack her. Now I’m pretty thick skinned. I care little if anything at all, what people think of me, but that was a bit much even for me. I doubt that I will go back to that particular church.
The if a man does not work neither shall he eat, and freely give as you have been given to mentality is beyond tiresome. What people truely mean when they make such statements is (you give to me and I take from you and if you complain about it or your not a very good christian).
This is akin to an person who abuses their place of authority telling you that you have a problem with authority because you won’t put up with them abusing you.
In the past I have given till I couldn’t give anymore. And those people to whom I gave merely turned around and returned their backsides to me. Even a sponge needs to be refilled with water once you have squeezed out it’s supply. Is it therefore selfish because it has no more water to give and requires water to be given unto it?
I am a 43 year old man and have been a christian since the age of 10. I have seen it all. I have heard it all. I have been accused of not having a very good christian attitude as if I am suppose to have some kind of predisposed attitude that automatically makes me appear like Jesus Christ. Clue one: I AM NOT JESUS CHRIST. Why should I have his personality and attitude. Clue Two: ITS NOT MY JOB TO DIE FOR YOUR SINS. So don’t expect me to role over and play dead like a dog.
I think this individuals attitude is more due to an awakening realization that those around him are not what they pretend to be. They show themselves as being his friends, but are they? Then there’s the question he doesn’t seem to want to ask: Is his attitude due to God wanting to lead him out of that particular church into a different minstry? If God is speaking and your not hearing, chances are, your not going to get much out of the service, no matter what you do.
For me, it seems pointless to go to church on a weekly basis to sit in a service where I don’t get anything out of. It is just as pointless to be the member of a church where I know that, despite the preaching to do God’s will, the leadership of the church will not do anything to assist me in fulfilling God’s calling in my life.
I could go on further, but what point is ther in that. It’s not like people are going to jump on the wagon that’s yet to get rolling. It’s what this article is about. They’re lazy. And it is because of that laziness that America is in the shape she is in. You don’t want God’s man, and you don’t want revival. In fact I’ve come to the conlusion that the church has lost it’s sanity.
Not true you say? Then why do they send a combine out into an empty field to sow seed?
Scott Corgatelli on Wed, September 29, 2004
Quote
““Spiritual authority,” an all-too abused word today, has nothing to do with position (i.e., pastor) but is built completely upon adherence to the truth of God’s Word, in love.
So when God’s people come together to encourage each other with God’s word and submitting one to another, the Headship of Christ is being truly represented and, thus has no need for a pastor.
Posted by: Ricky Roubique “
Ricky you really have to neglect quite a bit of the New and Old Testament to say that there is no need for authority or a Pastor. I am not saying that Pastors have it all right, but just like we are called to submit to worldly authorities, so to we are called to submit to church authorities. God clearly demonstrates the need for leaders. The offices outlined in Ephesians are absolutely vital for the ministry of the body.
Dianne on Wed, September 29, 2004
It seems to me that if we are focused on ourselves, as Williams put it, “It’s all about self examination” we are completely missing the point of being a Christian. Yes, I’m sure all of us in ministry get tired of no volunteers and no one joining our programs and the congregation complaining about one thing or another, but there’s more.
We are the body of Christ. We are Christians so that God can use us to continue Jesus’ work here in the world. To do that, we need to know what Jesus’ work was. Read the scriptures…live the scriptures. If we take in the Word, it will come out of us.
The Holy Spirit will permeate us and we will no longer require, “self examination” because if we study the scriptures we will already know who we are in Christ.
Ricky Roubique on Wed, September 29, 2004
Quote: “Ricky you really have to neglect quite a bit of the New and Old Testament to say that there is no need for authority or a Pastor.”
I believe you are referring to the examples of Moses and Joshua. I have heard this, among many others, for years from people who refuse to admit that Moses was ONLY a type of CHRIST (i.e., deliverer, bearer of the Commandments, etc.) but never a model to substantiate the position of pastor.
In fact, Moses misrepresented Christ in listening to Jethro’s counsel, which was never validated by God. If the Jethro model of “church government” (How can a part of a body overrule or take the place of the head [Jesus]?) is the biblical way, then the Roman Catholic church is the most biblical denomination on earth, for their entire structure is predicated upon the Old Testament model of the priesthood (i.e., the priesthood of a few).
In addition, now that the Holy Spirit dwells IN US, we have no need of people to rule over us in the Body of Christ with the exception of the Head, Christ Himself.
Quote: “I am not saying that Pastors have it all right, but just like we are called to submit to worldly authorities, so to we are called to submit to church authorities.”
We are not called to submit to any one person but yet to everyone, so does that mean that all are “church authorities?”
My answer is “yes” because biblical authority is predicated upon the adherence to the truth of God’s word. When Paul confronted Peter, who was more “senior” to him in the Lord (Galatians 2:11ff), he did so from the unimpeachable position of standing on the character of God (i.e., truth).
However, most people in Christianity, place more emphasis on positions that are not supported by Scripture. God does not operate as such and we need to follow His lead and not our own.
Quote: “God clearly demonstrates the need for leaders. The offices outlined in Ephesians are absolutely vital for the ministry of the body.”
Again, another doctrine created by those who desire and need to keep people ignorant in order to stay in power.
In my opinion, Ephesians 4:11 has nothing to do with a select few (an Old Testament model) doing the ministry but the entire Body of Christ. Therefore, the “some” that Ephesians 4:11 refers to is not a selected few “offices” but giftings that are found in the entire Body of Christ.
What that means is that among the Body of Christ there are equal numbers of “apostles, prophets, etc.” through which we ALL are equipped when God’s people express their unique gifts. Instead of a few “apostles, prophets, etc.” there are MANY, being evenly divided among the Body of Christ for the purpose of the Body equipping itself, thus fulfilling the work of service.
However, today, the “pastor” (a term used only once in the New Testament)
has been exalted as the most important position among the so-called “five-fold ministry offices.” Why is that when the word “pastor” appears 4th in the line quoted in Ephesians 4:11?
There are elders in the Body of Christ, mature, caring people (men/women) whose hearts are burdened for the Church of Jesus Christ. They are ready to confront heresy but are never to control or “govern” people. And you will never see these precious people on TBN or on the pulpit on Sundays, basking in the limelight of adoring “fans.” Most of them do not have degrees from prestigious seminaries and they hate titles such as “Reverend.”
Instead, you will find them in prayer closets and walking with the unlovely to encourage them to passionately pursue Christ.
Tim on Wed, September 29, 2004
Doug,
I am with you! The flesh is so weak and wants to be fed. I deliberatly park my car away from the church and force myself to walk through a wooded park. I use my walk to pray, begging God at times to help me be a gracious minister. In my flesh, I would stay in bed too! I feel like everyone wants a pound of that flesh on Sunday. I have to be careful to give them the Spirit, and not my flesh!
Zee on Thu, September 30, 2004
I have not read all of the comments, however"Before you move out of a Ministry” lead me to your site.
I am a Minister in Training. Over a year ago I came from a very large church that split and a new one was started also veay large. It was their that I discovered that God had given me gifts. I have left there since and I am with a very very small congregation (less than 20 people attend regularly. I want to leave for I am not happy their not because I can’t use my gifts. But it feels like such a struggle to come to church when I use to run to church.
The Spiritual Appetite is not there so to speak. People drag their feet to do what we are called to do. Lead people come late so we start late we are in chruch from 9:30am to 3:30pm. It is exhausting watching the Pastor and Praise & Worship leader try to get saint on one accord. People join today and don’t come back. Members that where there leave before you get to know their name good. The moral for worship is very low, or volunteer in service is very low.
The help ministries are not being utilized I think because people don’t stay long. I feel like we get lectured alot instead ministered too. I don’t want to over step my boundary with the Pastor yet I see alot of ministries that would help, if people were more deicated to serve and felt more love and being critized less. I have only been training in this church 2 months and from the second week that I joined people have come and gone and I too always feel like I don’t want to be there. I always want to go to another church where there is the worship is enthustatic,an excitement to get into the presence of God with or with music because the love and Spirit of God’s presence is HIGH and on Fire. Please give me feed back. Even my family question why do I keep going to that church if I don’t like things there. QUICKLY I AM DROWNING
Linda on Thu, September 30, 2004
Well, I really appreciate Doug’s honesty and I pray that others will find the same revelation as Doug has. I am a worship and praise leader and Saints like Doug (before his revelation) do not know how much more of a struggle it puts on this ministry and on Pastor’s everywhere (those who really have the passion to serve) to see people come and just sit expecting us to “work them up.” However, I have grown in the mist of this type of struggle because of this I am a better worship and praise leader. Even though I have my own struggles along with the struggles in the church also, I have grown (and still growing) to set myself aside and let the Holy Spirit take over and by His Grace he allows me to actually give Him true praise and to appreciate all that he has done. I sometimes wonder what would happen if all who gathered in the sanctuaries would come with one worship and one praise …would it be another day of Pentecost. Would He fill the House so mightily that even the priest couldn’t minister? Wow!
Dan Moore on Thu, October 14, 2004
What a lovely mess we are! God is so gracious to let us be part of the body of Christ.
As a pastor, I have a biased view. I look at my relationship to the church in the same way I do my relationship with my wife. Some days I’m not lovable. Some days my wife is not lovable. Its the same with the church. Some days I am boring. Some days the church is boring. So what!
It is all about covenantal love. That is what Jesus was trying to get into Peter’s head when He asked Pete - “Do you love me?”
Emotionally, I will feel drained and wore out. That is no excuse for me to leave my wife or the church.
Pastors shepherd the flock. It is not about worship. Let’s face it - the “worship hour” should be changed to the “equipping hour”. Worship should take place throughout the week. Singing can take place anywhere. I don’t see Jesus leading any type of worship except for one little hymn sung at the end of a Passover Meal. Jesus taught, preached, and ministered. He encouraged, healed, warned, and tested. He prayed. He sought the Father’s will. He led and listened. He touched, hugged, and kissed. He endured criticism and questioned motives.
I’m not about numbers or style or favorite programs. I am about Jesus and people.
Daniel Zepeda on Mon, February 21, 2005
My House shall be called a house of prayer.
The purposes of the early church gatherings were to pray corporately and seek the presence of God. The believers came already filled with the Spirit of God and excited about joining their faith with others in corporate prayer because they KNEW the power of agreement in prayer. Their prayers shook foundations and flung open prison doors. God is his mercy has given us these examples for us who are mature to apply them to the spiritual realm. What I mean is this, when we agree together in prayer what God did in the physical realm by freeing Paul and Silas through the prayers of his people he now continues to do in the spiritual realm by freeing those who are captive to sickness and sin. Our purpose for coming together is not to hear a sermon, but to call on God corporately and acquire his presence and help to change the lives of those held captive and for the building up of the saints in the presence of God.
The gifts and fruits of the Spirit should be fully operating in every church in order to fulfill the commission that Christ gave us. Reading the comments on the blog we are still trying to move under our own power and initiative and we soon run down, but when we are under the power and demonstration of the Holy Ghost we can leap over a wall or run against a troop. Without the anointing of the Holy Ghost we will always flounder. Although capable of many great things in our own strength we will never be able to reach people consistently and bring them to maturity outside of being directed by the spirit of God.
I know what it is to be persecuted and shunned for Christ and I know the pain of those who you trusted most taking your trust and defiling it. I know what it’s like in this world to be labeled a prophet and be put under death sentence simply because you love the Lord too much to compromise. I have lived in this mode for over eight years and I can still sing and the peace I know in all circumstances is the kind that only those who meet the master can know. I am not saying I have never despaired for life because of circumstances, for we are all tested, but when I do despair I run to my Father in heaven and call on Him in Jesus name and I spend whatever time I need to in his presence until I am able to emerge more than a conquer through Christ who loves me. Our Sunday gatherings should be to call on God through prayer and fasting. It should be a time when we take our petitions before the Lord corporately and ask our Father in Heaven for our miracles that will change our circumstances and our society for Christ. We have an all powerful God who is the sovereign lord of all creation who is capable to do above and beyond all we should ever ask or think. My brothers behold the trumpet of God is sounding will you not make a determined effort to come and feast at the table of the KING of Kings.
1Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. ?Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4?Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
6But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”?
7Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
Alan on Tue, February 22, 2005
Ricky R.,
We appreciate your opinions, honestly we do. How about trying to not be a jerk about it. You have quoted half the people’s opinion on this topic and have critized each one. I do not sense the loving spirit of Christ in you. I realize I don’t know you, but after reading you posts, you were very harsh.
I realize this was written a long time ago and I am now just reading this, but you owe each one you quoted an apology. You might not like us pastors, but may be you could be play nice. And if you are a Pastor, I will pray for your church.
Rod Campbell on Thu, August 04, 2005
This article does remind me of where I was at when I worked within the ministry of other people. God used that time I spent in leadership to teach me very important truth concerning how He established His Church to be and what man has done in institutionalizing his own idea of church.
The true Church does not look the way many have been accustomed to seeing it physically. Christ is the true Shepherd, He is the vine. The Church is a spiritual body of believers. This does not indicate that a group of believers cannot co-own a building and property together, but for what reason is the question. And for that matter money easily become a big distraction from more important parts of serving God.
When we are part of the body of Christ, He Pastors us naturally through our participation in the body. People for centuries have chosen authoritative roles with the institutions that have become known as “churches.” However, we must ask ourselves if true pastoring is established through this authoritative process or does it happen as a result of people building relationships with each other. When relationships have been built than Christ is allowed to Pastor our spiritual needs through those relationships. The early church developed close relationships with each other in homes.
What we really see in Doug’s story is that he was discouraged by having to work under the authority of man within a man instituted ministry. If they were really operated in accordance to God’s Will they would have freed Doug to allow Christ to minister through him without the restraints of someone else’s ministry. We should not hold people captive to what we consider to be our ministry. People need to be free to see only Christ as their Pastor/Shepherd. This doesn’t mean that Christ does not use people. However, He uses the people and He ministers through them.
What we see today is people in the name of ministry using Christ’s name in vain to institute their own plans. There is no need for a group of Christians gathering to employ a person in a position of pastoring people if they are really following Christ and filled with His Spirit. If we are filled with His Spirit, than it is Christ through us who pastors others. This happens as He gathers His sheep and equips them for service. This begins with the building of relationships. Not simply surface talk once a week, or occassional counselling sessions, or Bible study classes.
A few people employed by a group of Christians cannot possibly build a relationship in which they really know the spiritual need of the person in who they claim to be pastoring. Beside this, I am very confident that Christ does carry on His Pastoring of His sheep and it does not look like what we are seeing within the institutionalized church setting. My word of advice is to begin to question what you have believed was truth. Hold leadership accountable to the Will of God and the spiritual truth found in scripture. Submit to Christ alone, by faith. He is capable of building you up. He is capable of gathering you where you are needed in the body. It will not look like what you have been accustomed to. You will no longer be engaged in the performance and rituals instituted by man. You will be engaged in the freedom that Christ has to offer in His body.
bernie dehler on Thu, August 04, 2005
Ricky R. says:
“One of the most serious misconceptions about so-called “full-time ministry” is the practice of validating a person’s ministry by a paycheck that has the name of a religious organization on it.”
So true. It takes quite some living experience to know this. Yet, for those who go right into ministry from an early stage, God bless you! Just don’t be corrupted by all the false teachings from Churchianity, espoused big-time from those such as TBN (one of the largest cancers in the body of Christ, with the “prosperity gospel” and “name-it-and-claim-it” doctrines).
...Bernie
http://freegoodnews.blogspot.com
Laurey West on Mon, December 05, 2005
I really appreciated this article. It is nice to know I am not alone. I have attended the same church for over 10 years, and have had the hardest time lately getting ready on Sunday mornings. We recently switched to a Sunday school class after having a bad experience with another class and have found ourselves in the same boat. People use prayer requests for gossip and do not take studying the Word seriously. Another class member asked the question, “Can you be a Christian and feel spiritually dead inside?” The teacher and other class members started laughing at him. I spoke with him at church later and he said he would never go back to the class. The teacher does not follow a lesson plan - he just comes up with silly games and breaks us into groups to talk about very personal things. My husband and I have decided not to go back to the class either. I learned more gossip about fellow members attending that class, and have had people (so called friends) gossip about me. I am very disheartened by how people (including our pastor) have treated me and others at our church. I have to pray EVERY Sunday lately just to get to the doors of the church and then pray during church for the Lord to deal with my negative attitude about being there. I remind myself that I am at church to worship Him and that is the most important thing. I agree with the comment that we do need get back to helping others in need and ministering to the sick and needy. And take gossip and alandering others out of the mix. Also, members need to SMILE and be encouraging others in a loving, SINCERE WAY!!!!!
Vanessa on Sun, November 18, 2007
Doesn’t anyone ever consider that maybe its not us, its the whole way we do church? That perhaps we have a form of church that is not biblical and we know it inside of us?
I am always struck with this sense of Christians needing to beat themselves up, blaming ourselves because we can no longer deal with church that functions like we’re going to work.
No you are not alone. But until we are willing to say there is something wrong with the whole way we do church nothing changes.
We can’t fix it. I believe its the Lord’s way of bringing us to the end of this thing somebody built and said it was church and we all have to attend and pretend we like it.
I just wish someone would just say it. THIS is not church, lets get on our knees and ask Jesus what church is, open our Bibles and let Him speak.
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