Ouch.  The Holy Spirit just pricked my heart.  I serve in a very small church...VERY small—we average less than 100 on Sunday, which is about 90% of our membership (how many churches can say THAT?).  I’ve never had a problem with the size of OUR church...I love it...close fellowship, lots and lots of kids and kids programs, great families.  What I HAVE had a bad attitude about is the big churches all around us.  When I say big… I mean we are 3 blocks from a mega-megachurch of the same denomination.  They have about 18,000 members!  I refer to it as “Ft. God” or “Six Flags Over Jesus” or “JesusWorld”.  They have evey facility and program known to Christendom, and some unknown ones.  And there are at least 2 over very large churches with 1/2 miles of us.  I’ve belonged to megachurches in the past in several cities, and I don’t miss being a member of one.  I guess what I miss is the budget and resources to do more and the ability to impact a lot of people.  And then I remember the 5 loaves and 2 fishes.  Mostly, I realize that no matter the reason for my attitude, it has been dead wrong.  Yes, we have actually gained some members and had visitors from the large churches around us. But my focus needs to be the people who are lost and not a member of any church, and rejoice whether they join our church or some other.  After all, we’re all just branches of HIS church.  So I join with Tim in refusing to speak ill of any other church or its staff and repent of having done so.  Thank you for this article.  I needed it.

What a good story. Yes, I’ve been on both sides of the scenario and sad to say, I have been guilty of providing sanctuary and a listening post. I was convicted today of listening to things that I have no business listening to. I made a resolve to fortify the boundaries of my heart and mind and to keep oil handy for the hurting heart.

I have been in the pastorate for 28 years and if there is one thing I have learned it is that people who leave churches because of “change” do so, typically, because they did not get their way. In the past two years we have had a number of people leave our church because of all the “change” and have resettled in other churches in the area. I understand totally that change is very difficult for some people and church leadership needs to be sensitive in how they affect change. However, I find it interesting that the way some people solve the “change problem” is to make the biggest change of all - going to a different church with different people and programs - all new. Not one of the people that left our church left because of a theological issue. So, wherever they landed the pastor, sooner or later, will be dealing with the same issues I faced when they were with me. This is one of the reasons that I am very reluctant to take into membership any “sheep” from neighboring pastures.

As Baptists we allow someone to become a “Member” of our group by three methods, salvation followed by baptism, statement of their faith and upon acceptable proof of water baptism as an act of obedience to the commands of our Lord and the third one is a letter from the former church. This letter is meaningless if not truthful and witnessed by two or more witnesses. With the proper communication upon request of letter no feelings would develop upon unfounded information. Then if it is only the prompting of the Holy Spirit that led theses people to join our group of believers, then praise God for the increase in ability to serve. Pew warmers may pay tithes for our building programs but are of little use in the afterlife.

This kind of thing happens all the time in ministry. There are some ministries that are very intentional about stealing sheep from another pasture. There has to be a return to the biblical mandate of reaching out to the world with the gospel. The un-churched are many in these “yet to be United states” and it’s our Chrisitian duty to reach those who are lost. Jesus never gave his disciples a mandate rejoice over the down fall of another person. It is important that pastor’s pray for each other and support each other when things go wrong. If you stay long enough in ministry, something will happen and you will need someone who really cares about.

Great topic!  We recently had a church plant start advertising in a local paper.  I was astounded to read “Are you tired of church?  Is your church boring?  Do you believe that the Lord is prompting your heart for a change? Then consider coming to . . . “

How blatant is that?

I came to a church 4 years ago which experienced it’s most major “growth” as a result of a couple of churches in town which were going through changes.  Since I’ve been here, there has been a continual revolving door within our church and these other 2 churches.  My repeated attemtpts to find a solution has been thwarted by a lack of cooperation from the other pastors.  I have invited them to pastors luncheons to try to determine what is a better working relationship.  I have called them whenever anyone from their church is attempting to transfer to ours.  I have refused to accept new members from these churches unless they have a letter of transfer from their previous churches.  All with little results.  In the meantime I have seen some from our church leave to these other churches and never have been contacted by them.  This grieves my heart.

I would venture to guess that only about 30% of our church’s attendance has been the result of people coming to Christ.  The rest are attending (but not members) because they have not reconciled with the churches and pastors they have left.  It makes for difficult ministry because I have a tendency to say it as it is and refuse to compromise on this issue.

Sometimes there are legitimate reasons for leaving a church.  But there is a correct way to leave as well as a correct way to enter into covenant with a new church.  I always instruct “visitors” to have a sit down with the pastor of the church they are contemplating leaving.  I won’t take “I can’t talk to him” as a bonifde answer.  I will then follow up with a phone call to speak personally to the pastor and ask for his advice as to how to handle these potential transferees.  Until those loose ends are tied up, no official transfer.

I recall reading a survey a few years back that many evangelicals consider themselves as having 3 home churches.  For example, they go to one because of the youth group, another because of the worship and a third for a small groups etc.  The consumer mentality in our culture has caused a deteriorating view of what church is about. I don’t know if I’ll see this trend reversed in my lifetime.  In the meantime, I’ll try to maintain my integrity and operate on the highest level of ethics in the hopes of changing some minds.

Thanks Todd, great topic.

For several years now, I have always been leary of people who come to our church from other churches.  I’m not talking about people who are new to the community and are looking for a home church.  I’m talking about people who leave churches.  I’ve learn over the years that there are a group of people who do just that.  They go to a church until they get offended, then they leave.  Not very often do I find a family leaving their church for GOOD reasons.  Too many times there are issues that they have refused to resolve, and they just leave and come to my church.  I counsel with them to make sure they are coming to our local church for the right reasons. I have told people in the past that they need to return to their former church and mend some fences before they can serve in ministry here.  If they got offended there, they will probably get offended here. I’m quite frank with people, my main interest is reaching people who don’t know Jesus.  I learned a long time ago from disgruntled musicians who left their church and invaded our local ministry.  Word to pastors, You will get troublemakers from other churches.  Keep your eyes open, and make sure that the transfer growth you get is for the right reason.  If they want to continue in ministry at your church, try not to let them just jump in.  And be up front with them, let them know that you have reservations, and that you have spoken to their previous pastor. Get to know ALL of your local pastors, and don’t be afraid to compare notes with them.  We’re all in this together.

I left my previous church last summer.  I had been there for 6+ years and had become a deacon, Sunday school teacher, worship leader and a trustee.  We were small, around 60-70 on a good day.  We had moved into a large facility that another church had vacated.  Since we had been meeting in storefronts and schools, we thought this would be a great jumpstart to see our church really grow.  Well, we were in over our heads.  We couldn’t afford the building.  We knew we’d have to leave there or close the church.  I had lunch with the pastor, who was a good friend, and he told me we were going to close.  But it was a different story a week later when he announced that we’d keep going.  In short, my wife and I decided to leave.  Several others had already left, and we felt it was the only option.

I read the comments above and some feel that these coming to your church will only cause problems.  But sometimes they have truly been hurt by a pastor who saw them as threats to his ministry rather than friends who do love him and the church.

My biggest lesson in all this is to always remember that there are two sides to everything.  If someone is afraid to let you hear from both sides, then they’ve probably got something to hide.

Jeremiah 23:1-4 says “Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture! declares the Lord.  therefore this is what the Lord, the God of Isreal, says to the shepherds who tend my people: Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will destroy you for the evil you have done, declares the Lord.....I will place shepherds over them who will tend them and they will no longer be afraid or terrriefied, nor will any be missing declares the Lord.

I thought I would throw some truth in there, so it wouldn’t be just mans oppinion about why people leave churches.  Not every man that stands in the pulpit is called by God.  and some start out that way but get greedy, uncaring, cruel, taskmasters, become ungodly, and do not really care for the flock.  We have recently left our church of a total of 10 years or so.  we have tried to hang in there and we have prayed through and put up with a lot. And no change.  Sometimes the Pastor hearts are so hardend that God gives them over and you have a choice you can stay or go.  The pastor at our church and his wife were habitual liars, using trickery, flattery,deception, and theft.  Where sin is not dealt with and swept under the rug. Even after confrontation. Our Pastor dressed up as dracula in a coffin and his wife a witch for a halloween party at the church(We were not there but I happened to stumble into the left overs from the party the night before in the basement of which was a gruesome basement full of demonic accessories. This church did not extend to the poor. I could go on and on.  We did not leave because of change or lack of but because of blatant sin and ungodliness in the leadership.  Therefore we could not set under his teaching.  A pastor has a high and holy calling, If he cannot live up to that requirement then he needs to step down because he is hurting many many people of which he will stand before a Holy God and give and account because His ministry was discredited.
When we as sheep go into a new church we are also suspicious, If you know what I mean. Until the Lord heals the damage done by and ungodly shepherd. So it isn’t always the sheep that are in the wrong....

Great article - we shouldn’t be involved in gossip about another Pastor or any other person.  There are also alot of sick churches and people who shouldn’t be leading them.  Meeting the lost where they are, should be the single greatest priority for the church, but sheep-switching is so much easier.  So there is a problem with the “church” (en masse) and there is another problem with our culture which has come to live their lives as consumers of everything - including God.  One church I know of has a practice of interviewing everyone who wants to join and asking them if they were members of another church.  If the interviewees say “yes” then they ask “why did you leave your last church?” If it was for a negative reason, then the church leaders advise this person to go back to their previous church and reconcile before they will be accepted into membership.  I think that’s pretty cool, but in an age where 90+% of church growth is transfer growth, not alot of other folks think this is a good idea.

At our church, we have an “unofficial” policy that we will not intentionally seek to pull people from other churches.

If someone leaves their church over a doctrinal issue, and comes to our church because it’s more in line with their beliefs, then that’s fine. However, to run an ad in the paper like that one church did asking if you were dissatisfied with your current church - that’s waaayyy over the line.

While leaving a church is painful, I’ve seen on here that there are good reasons to leave a church - conflict over unbilbical doctrine; as fuchris said, maybe a pastor sees them as a threat and they find it impossible to minister in that church; or as some see it - the church gets too big, some like the more intimate fellowships. However, even with these in mind, one should never leave a church in anger.

I have learned alot reading these posts regarding what some pastors do when they receive a “refugee.” I think there is quite a bit of wisdom in these replies and I hope to remember them when I receive someone who stumbles into our church as well.

I came to a church recently that experienced a mass exodus of people when the pastor was let go for a “moral failure.” Many of those people are at other churches and many are involved in ministry. I wonder how many of them have been questioned by their current pastors or more importantly counseled about the pain over the situation they came out of. Meanwhile I have many hurting people who are still trying to make their way through the pain and dissapointment of a dream gone really bad. I have found that few pastors take the time to get to know each other on a level deeper than the merely superficial. It has been one of the great disappointments of my pastoral career (17 yrs). It seems as long as the bottom line is improving (finances and attendance numbers) and the D.S. is happy then we are being “blessed.” I applaud this pastor who reached out to a hurting brother. We need more of the same in the body. When we choose to become “islands” we become vulnerable and often just another casualty of this great spiritual war.

I think the article was great, and that many of the posts are insightful.  I am trying to not be judgmental as I write this, but coming from a post-split perspective, I cringed as I read some of the other posts.

My husband is an associate pastor and we lost 120 or so members 19 months ago after a group came forward with accusations of moral failure and theft about the senior pastor.  This group said they had tried to speak to him in love and restore their relationships (blah, blah, blah), but because he was so “proud” and refused to admit his sin, they had to make this public.  While some would place this senior pastor under the category of a scatterer or a wolf, it was actually the accusing parties who were the wolves.  While it would be helpful to share the details of how I know these were all lies and that we weren’t in denial about his morality, the details are too many to do so.  Suffice it to say, this poor man’s reputation was destroyed, he lost his job, all his friends, and had to move, and the church’s testimony has been destroyed in the community (thanks to the gossip of the holier than thou accusers....all in the name of “love” and keeping the church “pure”.

By the way, the leaders and about 30 people in the accusing group had joined our church 25 years ago after causing a split in their former church.  Interesting, isn’t it?  And we know for a fact what they are telling people in their new churches...that they are “so hurt” by what our church has done.  So while I agree that some people are hurt by their churches, many of these “hurt” people are living in denial of the pain they have likely inflicted on their former churches over the manner in which they left.

And a word of advice, please don’t judge those pastors in “moral failure” or those accused of other such nasty things.  Just because members say they left for a “good” reason like moral failure, doesn’t mean it’s true.  Very often people accuse and judge with no proof, and then leave gossiping about a pastor who truly hasn’t done the crime of which he has been accused.  Living in our situation, we obviously want to know why new members left their old churches, so I understand why other pastors would also want to do so and why they would want to restore the relationships.  But I caution you to be wary of members who are quick to tell you about the problems in their old churches because you may get caught up in the gossip and the mess.  One such pastor contacted our deacons months after the split and tried to put my husband on church discipline because of the stand he took during the situation.  Yes, there are two sides to the story and just as some of you may be wary of money hungry pastors, sometimes you need to be wary of proud and divisive members who play their “hurt” card to get their own way in the next church.