Some truth.  Some pain.  Maybe a little selfrighteous bitterness too…

I know of churches who split on purpose and help build other ministries right in the same neighborhood.  Why not?  We are building God’s kingdom, not our own. 

And… “stealing sheep” ???  There not our sheep anyway - last I checked, Christ was the shepherd.

His overall point of being careful about building a ministry to the demise of other good ministries is so very valid though.

Anyone know why this video wasn’t keep in house? Which staff person leaked the video?

We can know the will of God if the word of God is specific. That is the objective side. But, if a person is determining the will of God, personally, (that would be subjectively), then there is no way for another person to say whether something is God’s will or not.

If a person feels led to plant a church, I have no right to tell that person whether that is the will of God or not. If a person wants to commit adultery, then I have every right, and a biblical basis, for telling that person that is not the will of God.

Just a thought.

Dear Pastor Pezz, I think we need to be careful, I always remember a message preached in our church in South Africa by Dr. Edwin Louis Cole when he talked about “Sedition” and how people who seduce your people into there church from your church, will carry that seditious spirit with them, your youth pastor and everyone who left with him are putting there Church, marriage, and families in danger of the same seditious spirit running wild in there lives.

Also let’s apply Biblical principle to the event Matt 18 go to the brother if he refuses to see you which he has done on three occasions, send the elders which you have done, now expose what he has done to the church locally and at large, that is your obligation, to save the brother and the body at large.

We need to stop this love everyone nonsense and be Biblical, save the church from the real Pirate.

“Apparently, to call attention to himself?”

As most “pastors” do today.

It’s all about the PR.

Peter:

“Your questions are, I think, just dancing around the issue of the rightness or “not” rightness of doing what Ed describes. Leveraging your influence in a church with the intention of splitting it. Intentionally doing damage to a church that you claim you were called to at one point and now claim (by your actions) to be called to damage.”

Peter, the system that I rail against is the consumeristic, free-market mess that we have created, which in no way resembles the New Testament church.

Are you telling me that you are contracturally prevented from leaving and starting a new work?  Where is God in that?  What if your “pastor” goes nuts and begins teaching heresy and you’re approached by concerned “sheep” who want you to help them?  What do you do?  Tell them, “Tough.  I can’t help you?”

Ricky,

We have the kind of oversight that would probably prevent that scenario, but if our pastor started preaching something diametrically opposed to our statement of faith, he would automatically be in a lot of trouble. VERY quickly.

And the thing I am contractually obligated NOT to do is to start another church in this town. If I sensed that God was calling me to start a church elsewhere, I would work with my pastor and leadership team (and denomination in all likelihood), so that I could be sent out rather than creeping out the back door, which, as I read Acts, seems to be a little more like they did it then.

I asked the question back a few pages if anyone had heard of the policy of not leading a child to Jesus under 12 UNLESS the parent was present?

This among several other reasons were why people left...we didn’t start another church
but when scriptures are twisted to support
“power leaders” and heywire thinking comes to roost, it may be time for the chicks to fly the coop.  Our church was pirated by the minister called to lead it.  He just stepped in and took over with demands for a bigger building, better PA, different hymnals, and a host of other embellishments.  Did people find Jesus or him?  Time will tell.

Peter:

“If I sensed that God was calling me to start a church elsewhere,”

Are you saying that God cannot or would not “call” you to start a church in the same town as your present congregation?

Bruce:

“but he (i.e., Ed Young, Jr.) never did say that he made the usher the Pastor and that he took over ushering, interesting.”

That’s because it’s beneath him to do so.

After all, he is the “pastor.”

his own staff have to talk to him through his blog??? really?!

I believe the “distance rules” came into play when people had unhealthy divisions among themselves. If we can’t get along, alt least move a reasonable distance away and be at peace with me. But… BUT.... I think there is a real problem of leaving a ministry situation under those unhealthy conditions and moving in right next door.

Biblically, Absolom had this approach to the kingdom while his father David was still on the throne. He stood at the gate and whispered, “If i were king...” Those whose hearts were restless, listened and were led into rebellion.

But...BUT… Pastors need to remember as well, that we do not ‘own’ our disciples. They want to be like Christ. We should lead them to loyalty to Christ, and loyalty to the Body of Christ which includes us, but is not singularly identified in us. Disciples should be free to be stirred by the Holy Spirit to anything in an atmosphere that promotes only the fear of God, not the fear of us as leaders. We as pastors must be very careful how highly we think of ourselves and the form of ministry we are part of.  It would not surprise me in the least that an expression of distaste for church pirates, as he calls them, wouldn’t lead to some of his own staff sensing that it is time to move into a new ministry… and perhaps next door!  I pray it isn’t so, but fear of anything but God moves people to fear of everything.