Todd,

This guy is a serial church killer. Six years ago he took a healthy church here in Hollywood--running over 1000. Left it with a few hundred. First thing he did was to drop all the church missionaries--took car and house away from the pastor before him--these things had been given to him by the church as retirement.

Bad guy.

Good luck--the question is not about a staff mutiny--but a pastoral mutiny.

Todd,

First, great to meet you at the Sticks Conference and thanks for Monday Morning Insight...it is awesome.

Now, on to Mark Cummins. I have known him for 20 years and he is my mentor and best friend in ministry. Unlike Redfishon, I have no problem attaching my name to my opinion.

Mark is the real deal, not a serial church killer. Rather than defend himself, Mark will continue to lead the church that he has been called to make a difference in the community and the world.

It is sad that redfishon chose to use this forum to distort reality.

Just for clarification, the email was sent to the entire church family, not the elders of the church, along with an automated phone message.

Mark didn’t have to fire the pastors, they in essence fired themselves through their actions.

I know on church staff, sometimes there is the mindset that it has to be handled like a business and sound business decisions have to be made.

On the other hand, a church is a family; it’s a body. In a family, secrets are dangerous, divisive, and create instability. The situation needs to be brought into the light in a “family environment” where people can be ministered to. Let’s face it, these men have probably formed deep bonds with many in this flock and they need to know the truth and be ministered to if they are grieving the loss of friends and mentors.

I know certain mega church pastors that hold conferences and sell tons of books would disagree. Some suggest that the fired staff should be escorted off campus by security as if they were bad corporate employees. Others suggest that if they leave, let ‘em leave as if they are an unbelieving spouse not content to live with a believer. I admit that this is an over simplification, Both Andy Stanley and Ed Young put these styles of staff management forward in audio messages and books they’ve marketed for staff development. But the Bible teaches reconciliation. And I’m not talking about the kind of psuedo-tolerance that we politely practice after a family member we only have to see at Thanksgiving or Christmas has wronged us. The Bible teaches real reconciliation.

Obviously, we don’t have all the details about this situation. And after someone get’s let go, we rarely look back on the situation and say, “wow, I did that exactly right. I couldn’t have done one thing better.” That never happens. But pastors are not CEO’s no matter what the sycophants say. They represent Jesus who always extends the hand that leads people back into full, forward moving fellowship with Him.

Hey Trent,

Guys I looked up to have messed up. The issue here is not what Cummings has meant to you. The issue here is the truth. Cummings obviously struggles with that.

A guy who has been at multiple places--has the same things happen over and over again--and it is always all those other people who are wrong and he is the only one right--please!

Read Peter’s post.

The events in Ocala, although extremely regretful and damaging to the Body and cause of Christ, were not only predictable but predicted by many close to the hurting people of Hollywood, Florida.  It was only a matter of when - within a year or after a year.

In the early days of Mark Cummins’ dismantling of the church in Hollywood, several business men in my own church shared with me the road map that many new CEO’s use in trying to make their mark on a new company.  Unfortunately, I watched that map followed to a tee and he certainly left a mark - the scars of pain, a lack of integrity and fruit borne out of the seeds of selfishness and the use of people for only one purpose, the success of Mark Cummins.

Unfortunately, the leadership of Ocala was mesmerized by the same charisma and flattering words that blinded the judgment of many along the way.  Character is often difficult to discover from a resume and a few interviews - especially if a lack of integrity is a habit.

I’ve shared 5 blogs on this topic in the past week.  It is very sad that it went public.  In Hollywood the folks who were hurt gave up the church they loved rather than go through a public split.  In the end, the Gospel didn’t suffer publicly, but the church is a mere shadow of its former self.

FBC Ocala is headed down a different path.  What is clear is that no one will win in this sad situation.

I have been impressed thus far with the way the 6 pastors have comported themselves.  They are very loved in their church and I’m not surprised some of the support from them has been passionate.

I’ve given my professional life to helping strong pastors lead healthy churches.  I’m at a multi-site church with a new name with seven nights of worship.  We have 66 nationalities active in our congregation.  We are southern baptist!

I can’t speak to FBC Ocala’s specific issue, but I did feel compelled to speak to the pattern that is so clearly emerging.

I have never done something this public and I hope to never do it again.  I am not as brave as Todd.  I have made my bias in this obvious in my post and allowed all comments from all sides.

God bless,

Kevin McCord

http://kevmccord.typepad.com

I’ve been both a staff member on a multiple staff Church and have been a Senior Pastor for the last 16 years. During that time, I’ve had to let some staff go which is tough any way you look at it, and hire new staff. The hiring process is fun, the firing process is painful anyway you look at it.

When asking a man who had worked many years with multiple staff what he would do should he go to another Church with staff he would inherit, he told me that going in, before the Church every voted on him, he would have an agreement in writing that all the staff would within the first 3 to 6 months turn in their resignation. Then at that point, he would have to the choice of accepting or denying those resignations. What it would do, he said, was to make the existing staff who were hired by another pastor understand their value to his leadership. Possibly had Dr. Cummins done something like that, the loyalty of these staff members could have been transferred to him because they would have felt valued for what they could bring to his team. But ultimately, I believe everyone in leadership wants to feel like they have their team around them. It’s why the agreement needs to be agreed upon by the Board or governing group, the congregation, and the existing staff before the individual is voted upon to become the new Senior Leader.

Maybe they should of took Perry Noble Words to heart and since they weren’t in their dream jobs to resign now!!

Lynn said, “This is a sad day for the church - demonstrating like gay marriage advocates who didn’t get their way.”
--------Absolutely! Sackcloth and ashes would have been the way to go. Amen, Lynn. You are right on.
fishon

Todd,

You missed an article on this topic published by the newspaper that broke the story.  You linked your readers to the original “here’s what happened last week” article as well as to the interview with the pastor, but you missed the investigative article entitled ”At Pastor’s Previous Church a Legacy of Trumoil”.

Blessings,

Kevin McCord

Hi Todd, thanks for Monday Morning Insight.

I served on the Pulpit and Pew think take at Duke University for four years.  One of the purposes of the “think tank” was to determine why so many pastors are quitting and why all denominations are having a challenge in getting people to sign up for a career in ministry.

Basically ... the number one reason why (by a long shot) so many pastors resign is because of “conflict” issues in the church.  I.e., not knowing how to handle conflct, the timing of when to address conflict, the history and people involved in the conflict and the major tensions that are part of the conflict. These issues and others cause many pastors to feel that the situation is distracting (to say the least) or impossible in the worst cases. 

We found that wIth pastors that have multiple staffs, the major reasons why they quit is not just conflict ... but conflict among the associate staff members (See the book, Pastors in Transition, Eerdmans). 

It seems that when a pastor comes to a church with a staff in place that the loyalty issues, trust (on both sides), and power plays (among some existing staff) are part of the presenting problem.  Many boards do not think this through as their concern (when bringing a new senior leader on) is getting a pastor in place.

Some thoughts.
The staff that you inherit has been hired by another leader whom they bought into. 
As the new senior leader, we need to understand all the job discriptions, know the people doing these ministry positions, and evaluate if they are doing the job (that takes time).
If we have issues such as disloyalty (toward us) or unearned mistrust (the associate has an issue “attitude") then we need to act in an appropriate way and speak to the person, then decide if it will ever work.
If it will not work, then deciding the best way to transition the person out is the next step.

My hope is that there would be more training for pastors and leaders in churches that addresses these issues.  This problem has proven to be a very messy, hurtful, and divisive issue in far to many churches.

One more thought, it seems that the pastor that inherits a staff, positive and negative history, and problems that have not been addressed by the previous administration ... “is at a disadvantage.” Great wisdom, discernment, and understanding is manditory ... or the situation can get out of control ... fast. 

The advice that seems to come from most that have been through this is ...
Give it some time and communicate trust.
If there are loyalty issues on the staff, deal with them (one on one) and keep the board informed.

My, my ... what they don’t teach us in Seminary!

Ken, good point on other staff submitting their resignations when a new senior is appointed.  In some churches, and denominations, that is customary.

I have never served as a senior pastor, although I have worn the hats of leadership in most of the common ministries you find in typical churches.

I know one thing for sure, it is paramount that all staff be on the same page as the senior/lead pastor.  If I am in disagreement with a senior on a particular topic, that is taken up in private, and it has never been an issue or a detriment to my ministry.  The lines of communication between subordinate staff and the lead pastor must remain open at all times.

The fact that the six associates did not show up for the meeting, which was reportedly aimed at reconciliation was a strike against them.  Whoever we are, wherever we are in ministry, we must, MUST, must always ALWAYS always seek reconciliation.  Sometimes that is not possible, but if we are truly people of faith in a God who created everything, why is it so hard for congregants and ministers to believe that reconciliation is possible.

I believe the committee at FBC Ocala acted in good faith.  By not showing up, the six associates did not honor that.  My question is, does the offer of reconciliation still stand?  It should.

Yes, the offer of reconciliation should always stand, however, a sabbatical should be issued if the sr. pastor wishes to keep them on… (I know a person who was serving as a associate pastor/minister and he let his position go to his head. He thought he was the sr. pastor and he thought everything the sr. pastor did was wrong… this associate pastor had the backing of the congregation but he didn’t have the blessings of God… so the associate pastor thought he had a point to prove so he left the church and started his own… 3-6 months down the line he realized that he was out of order and God wasn’t blessing his steps… in humiliation the associate went back to the sr. pastor and sought reconciliation…the sr. pastor forgave the associate but the associate was put on a year sabbatical for his actions…today that associate pastor leads a congregation where over 1,000 in attendance weekly…and the sr. pastor ministry grew as well…) we must learn accountability… we can’t do whatever we want just because we’re serving in ministry… we all have to be accountable… the associates are held accountable to the sr. pastor and the sr. pastor is held accountable to God…