It is very true that you can get burned doing right, I am sure most everyone who has done the seemingly right thing has been burned at one point in time.  This fact however should not keep me from doing right.  There is no “it’s hard or risky” loophole in doing right. 

I had a church try to hire someone off my staff recently.  They did not contact me, think of the impact that would have on our church nor have a clear assessment of my staff person’s abilities.  Had my staff person left it would have crippled an entire ministry and caused great harm to the church.

My staff team, 4 of us total, has every right to move on, but I ask them to be honest with me.  I hired people who I trust to hear God when it comes time to move.  I also tell my team that when they are approached, let me know so we can pray about God’s plan and purpose.  I also asked each of my team for a 5-7 year commitment to our church as it often takes that long to establish a well rounded ministry.  If my team gets recruited in some ways it is evidence we are growing leaders who can lead other leaders. 

Now let me also say that none of this is easy or lacking in risk.  But in my heart I feel it is right so it is how I proceed.  I would also add that if one of my team went looking without communicating with me I would more than likely ask them to consider moving on.  Not because they looked but because the foundation of our teamwork is trust and if they cannot trust me to hope the best for them they will not trust me enough to follow my leadership when following is difficult.  I trust them to hear God and they must trust me too as well.  When we act and live with strong trust as a team, we tend to want the best for each other.  I have also been burned by this approach as a SP in another church.  I could change it but I would lose more than I gain and would fail to be the developer of leaders a SP must be to do healthy ministry in the church today.

Is it the right thing?  I am not sure.  I just gave my resignation to my pastor.  I went without his knowledge on an interview.  I accepted the job came back and told him all about it.  Why don’t I think this is wrong?
I don’t feel guilty at all.  I was not sure how the pastor would react and I did not want to alarm him if there was nothing to alarm him about. It worked out for the interview that I was taken vacation the same week anyway to real close to the church and it worked out.  I never lied or gave him a lame excuse. 
Here is what I think would be wrong.  If I had lied and said I was going on vacation to see the family and I never saw the family or went remotely close to them. 
Each situation is different.  There church I left before I came to the church I am at now, I told the S.P. befroe the interview because he was a friend before we served together and I had to be gone so long that it was obvious what was going on.  If I was to do it over again I would not do that.  He definitly did not handle it with maturity. 
So having learned my lesson I did it this way.

Dalton,

I’m curious. Are you simply trying to “get under everyone’s skin”? That remark was pretty un-called for. You’ve never been in my church, so how would you know it was a social club. I think perhaps you just generally have a problem with the organized church. Well… perhaps this isn’t the forum for you.

Thanks for clarifying, Dalton. I suspected that perhaps you were simply an antagonizer. Now I know it to be the case. You know nothing of my church, or any of the others here, and yet you have felt it necessary to be insulting towards us.

I always enjoy corresponding with people on MMI, especially people that I disagree with. You are a notable exception. You are out of line with the rules of this blog and the rules of common courtesy. Perhaps you would feel more comfortable at slice of laodicea.

Now I have to go, I have a Small group to attend… where we make disciples… really dedicated ones who love Jesus and work their butts off to bring God’s message to the world, people that take time to work with troubled teens, people that take time off work without pay to help rebuild a town in Mississippi where Katrina ran rampant.... people who tell irreligious people about the God who loves them, about Christ who died for them… People who are the salt of the earth and the light of the world.

I knew you would miss it. If you woud “make disciples” like the Bible says, you wouldn’t have to go “steal a superstar” from a social club so that he can work at your social club !!!

sorry, i didn’t think it was posting

Come on, Bernie my brother… You know what I mean, I’m sure. (you’re reading in something that’s not there I think...)

I was going to quote a scripture to talk about the effort we put forth to “prove our faith”.... How ‘bout this… The entire book of James… I don’t think I made it sound negative at all… Perhaps it was the “context” (the posts around mine...)

Bless you brother!

Peter, my only concern is that there are lots of church workers working in the flesh, and it’s the recipe for burnout.  It’s a shame to have the Holy Spirit and not know how to use it or experience the fellowship of God in doing His will.  I’m glad that you know what I meant and do operate in the spirit. 

I grew up in the Catholic church.  No sense of the Holy Spirit working at all.  Then I was born-again and attended Baptist-type churches.  Still didn’t get it.  It took quite a few years, and even going over the deep end (too far) of Pentecostal-type churches that I finally figured out the balance.  Part of my job, as I see it, is awakening the church to the fellowship of God.  I’m so afraid that this verse is so true for many churches:

2 Timothy 3:2-5
2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

This is the scary part: “lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power.”

It speaks of “Churchians” in “Churchianity.” It’s a corrupted form of Christians in Christianity.  Many Christian churches are great “at the form” but without the power of God.

...Bernie

FROM THE HEADUNTER:
Wow, this is a hot topic - I’m not surprised. There are several questions I have from the headhunter’s perspective:
-What about the thousands of staff that have contacted us asking the headhunter to help them as they seek out a new ministry - do we tell them, we can not minister to them until we talk with their pastor?
-What about the countless stories of these staff being fired or asked to leave after being honest with their feelings about the possibility of seeking a new position?
-If the traditional model of hiring and retaining staff is working, why are so many staff dissatisfied with their current position? (a recent informal poll showed more than 50% of staff were “less than satisfied” in their current position)
-Why is there SO much turnover in church staff?

Regarding how a headhunter approaches possible candidates - what Geoff describes is not typical of a MinisterSearch recruiter OR of any of the other Christian headhunter firms I know. Almost always, one of the first questions asked is “would you be open to talking about another ministry opportunity?” What is quite interesting is the majority of the people we speak with say “sure, let me shut my office door.” Sometimes these folks become candidates, sometimes, we recommend they stay right were they are – but, come on, do you really think a recruiter could “convince” a staff member to leave a place they should stay?

I will also add, in agreement with a prior entry, that when one of our consultants encounters a staff member who is discontent, we immediately challenge them to make sure they have done their “biblical” duty to reconcile and make things right before they consider making a move.

I believe it a bit idealistic to assume church is so easy that we can grow all of our staff from within and they stay in one church for the rest of our life. We use outside help to build our buildings, store our money, create our software, develop curriculum, etc. Could it be possible, that an outside staff member could be an asset?

Blessings - GREAT DIALOGUE!

Wendi said:
“. . . then do something about it IN YOUR OWN CHURCH, and quit scolding people who serve selflessly and tirelessly at churches you know nothing about.  After you’ve figured out FROM EXPERIENCE how to do it right, and how to keep church workers from “working in the flesh and burning out,” because of how effectively you’ve equipped, discipled and invested in them . . . how to keep ministry from becoming a social club . . . then share your experience. “

Wendi- that’s what I’m doing.  He who has ears to hear, let him hear. 

...Bernie

When a person deems themselves as a prophet to the church whether in actual statement or in just how they come across they remain outside of accountability.  They feel they can say (in this case write) whatever they want and when they are challenged they either call names or position themselves above the accountability to Biblical civility and Christian mutual submission to one another.  That is why some people can post and speak audaciously, be requested to refrain, be asked to be accurate, be corrected and even engaged off line for this purpose and you never see change. 

Of course they claim accountability to GOD and forget that God has used his people and his word for this accountability since the days of Moses. (Probably earlier but since Moses started this whole writing thing I will only go back that far.) They site out of context references that give them authority but in reality they simply offend.  It becomes impossible to reason with such a person since they feel as though they are already right.  It becomes impossible to expect more of that person in tone or verification of facts because they like the power they feel and tone is how they express that power.  So Wendi and the rest who are frustrated by this kind of posting, thank you for you excellent and respectful attempts at fixing this kind of tone.  My input would be that the most effective way to deal with this is to simply not respond, no matter how offended I have been, hurt I have been, angry I have been or simply disgusted I have been by these few people.  I have chosen not to read their input when I see their names come up since I do not want to travel down an unproductive road with them.  There are only a few like this so I say the rest of you regular posters, thanks for teaching me through your experiences, your thinking and your interaction with God’s word.  I am a better pastor and person for it.  Todd, I am kind of new to this site but I love it and see great kingdom value.  Keep going please.  And finally, when I post, if I offend please feel free to let me know as that is never in my heart and I wish to learn.  Leonard

Bernie in reponse to me:

“I guess it comes down to different mindsets of what church should be.  The more I think and talk about it, the more “Church as performance” disgusts me.  ... and that’s what “church” is when it comes to the largest churches.”

Wow.  That’s quite a blatant insinuation you made there my man.  You.  Don’t.  Know.  Me.  Not to mention I was simply offering an EXAMPLE of how your theory (nay, pronouncement) doesn’t really work.

Your inexperience in this matter is really shining through, man.  Not to mention arrogance.

dalton…

does this mean that you are currently working in a church without medical insurance, a 401k, and all that?  are you currently getting paid at your current church? 

secondly, are you questioning my calling because i am looking to work at a church that is willing to compensate me fairly?  how do YOU determine who is genuinely called and who is not?  am i?