The considerations must include these:

*How serious are the teaching errors in those who have invited me?
*Will I lend credibility to them?
*How much freedom will I be afforded to openly and subtley address the errors?
*Will I confuse people who are edified by my ministry?
*Is the opportunity of such unique importance it is worth causing a dispute within the body?

In the end, with all these questions appearing as substantive in this situation, it would seem appropriate to politely decline.

Mark:

I admit, I’ve been trying to be more discerning and less critical in my contributions to MMI here recently, but I’ve got to ask: do you have any other quotes in your pocket except for Matthew 7:1, or are you just a one-verse pony?

--
CS

I hit submit too quickly.

I wanted to add

Mark, thanks for making your argument a little more graciously today. I would still like to engage you more fully about your Matthew 7 argument. email me if you’d like to do that off-line, as this is really not a theology debate forum here.

Mark,

Again,

According to your own standard, which you are basing on your interpretation of Matthew 7… you are judging the salvation of Ken and Ingrid. This means you are usurping the judgment from God and thus judging and condemning Ken and Ingrid.

You are doing what Jesus is teaching NOT to do…

Look at Romans 2.... read it carefully.
Romans 2

1.  You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
2.  Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
3.  So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
4.  Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

It is one thing to judge something moral, but another to take the position of God and cast someone into hell as you have done.

There is only One God and you are not Him. Mark, you are showing contempt for the Kindness of God that leads people to repentance… your interpretation of Matthew 7 is based on the Law and denies the Cross of Grace and Mercy and you are doing what Jesus taught we not ought to do.  You are sinning against your brother and sister in Christ and God Himself… yet God does not condemn you, but calls you in His Kindness to repent ot this.

The purpose of the Sermon on the Mount was to bury all of us in our own sin to lead us to the kindness of God and repent… to fall on His mercy. You are warping it into a Law and Jesus never intended to add to the Law but to fulfill it Himself and then abolish it in those who believe in Him.

You condemn when the Bible teaches there is no condemnation for those in Christ.

If Ken and Ingrid are not saved, then the condemnation is already on them… it matters less that the judge as they are already judged. But they confess Christ so i give them the benefit of the doubt and trust God for their salvation…

iggy

Priscillas and Aquilla pulled Apollos off to the side and explained the way of God to him “more accurately”.  Thank goodness they didn’t make a church dividing fuss over it.

The problem with many “discernment ministries” is they have assumed a position and a divine permission to speak to certain groups that God has not given!  There is so much presumption and pride there.  Just because you know the truth does not mean God authorizes or calls you to speak to any and every group.  There is a God-called sphere for each of us.  Paul realized his sphere was NOT the Jews!  That was Peter’s sphere.

God has sovereignly opened the door to a Ray Comfort to go in and stand before people who need the way of God explained more accurately to them.  These critics of Ray will never get such a platform given by God.  They have presumed that platform from the popcorn gallery and often done more harm than good, in that their comments are only polarizing.

By the way, why do you think they asked Ray Comfort to come?  Because they wanted to indoctrinate him or because they felt he could explain the way of the Master to them more accurately?????

I believe it is the latter! 

With all their faults, these WoF preachers will die for the tenets of the “true gospel” as most of us call it (ie the virgin birth, deity of christ, bodily resurrection, eternal judgment, etc.) They have just gone too far and added things on to the gospel. 

God bless Ray Comfort for his grace and lack of presumption and pride.  May god also bless the WoF people who apparently believe Ray Comfort has something to teach them.

“unteachable” is one of the signs of the apostates Paul says come in the last days.

Hello Derek,

Any chance you are Derek Vreeland?

If so, we’ve crossed paths before.  Shoot me an email at:

If you’re not “that” Derek, I’d love to touch base anyway.  Sounds like we’ve got a lot in common.

I encourage consideration of Paul on Mars Hill at Athens. Chuck Swindoll preached an eyeopening sermon on evangelism under the title of the seed picker.  Swindoll discussed how Paul didn’t start out with the Athenians by pointing out steeped and unregenerate they were in idolatry. Instead he opened with,"I see from all the gods for whom you have made shrines how religious you are.  You even have one to an unknown god, let me tell you about that unknown God. Then he laid out the message of salvation.

Truth in Love,

I would agree that we should treat Ingrid and Ken with grace, however you need to read them more closely because they do not speak out in grace. Calling people like Rick Warren the Purpose Driven Pope is not a way to open dialogue and that is just one example. Yes we need people in the church to point out error but it is difficult to do that when it is only a monologue instead of a dialogue and it is done in the spirit of being “right” instead of “gently restoring”. I have seen people try to talk with these guys and what happens is they twist words and use quotes out of context against people. Let’s face it without someone to talk about these people have no ministry (especially in Ingrid’s case).

Also the whole “guilt by association” or “endorsement by being at an event” is completely ridiculous and this instance with Ray Comfort points that out. So Ray’s character is really in question for going to an event like this? If not, why not, they do that to other pastor’s they criticize? Where is the Holy Spirit in all of this? Or does He really need our help? If people come to true faith in Christ at this event can’t the Holy Spirit which they would then have, help them discern false teaching? Or do we need to cocoon the people right away to make sure they don’t hear anything false?

Ray’s job is to preach the gospel. He is an evangelist and evangelists go into places others “wouldn’t associate with” because they have a heart for lost souls. If he goes in there and just rebukes, do you really think the people there would ever “hear” the gospel? Do you think his rebuke publicly would really sway the people he is rebuking?

In one way I am glad he is experiencing this because this is what he has done to Rick Warren on his radio program and now he is experiencing it first hand judging a person’s character out of context. No wonder the world can’t hear the gospel because of “Christians.”

I think what everyone is forgetting here is that we are still dealing with heresy across the boad, Rick warren is as much a heretic as these guys, yet nobody can call him out!  We do have to get rid of heresy but it has to start with cleaning up our house first! (those of us that are not pentecostals)