Daily Innovation, Ministry Insights, and Thoughts from Todd Rhoades for Pastors and Church Leaders
Is “Sin Assisted Evangelism” Culturally Justifiable?
Jim from OldTruth.com recently took me to task over a recent post at MMI on John MacArthur. Jim writes, "If you are familiar with Todd Rhoades' Monday Morning Insight blog, you probably know already that this popular hang-out for trendy pastors is about as opposite to Old Truth as is imaginable. So it's no surprise that MacArthur's remarks were cause for some Monday Morning chafing. Unfortunately, as we are about to see, the resulting insights from that blog seem to have been based more on dubious 'spin' than on anything else..."
It’s an interesting read, if you’re so inclined. Here it is. Actually, Jim is one of the more level-headed MMI detractors, and I can respect that. I do hope he realizes that he uses as much (if not more) spin as I do. And at least one of his commenters go wild with the fake explitives. (check out Pastor Jody’s response).
Just for the record… I’ve never advocated using the F word or putting nearly naked women on the stage. I’ve never even joked about it. And I don’t think that’s the slippery slope that we’re going down (some may disagree and that’s ok). In other words, I don’t think that Mark Driscoll gets up in the morning and thinks of how he can work in three ‘sucks’ and two ‘frickins’ into every message. I think his delivery is his effort to reach his culture and church (which IS much different than the culture at Johnny Macs).
One final thing… I do find it interesting when two different worlds collide. Like the worlds of John Piper (who many at OldTruth really love) and Mark Driscoll (who most there can’t stand). When Piper asks Driscoll to speak at his conference, it’s interesting to read the response about all the people who can’t understand why Piper would ask such a foul-mouthed person like Driscoll to share the stage with him. Then a few weeks later when Piper says at a different conference something to the affect of ‘sometimes God kicks our ass’, those same Piper fans can’t believe why Piper would ask a foul-mouthed person like Driscoll to share the stage with him. 
Read some of the comments on that post and see their consternation.
I think Piper is great, by the way.
It all makes for an interesting discussion… a discussion (that as long as it doesn’t get ugly and personal) is a fun one (albeit a time-wasting one) to have, at least for me.
This post has been viewed 526 times and was added on March 07, 2007 by Todd Rhoades. Filed under: Engaging Culture Trends in Today's Church Share this post with a friend right now! View reactions to this post at other blogs... You can really help us out by subscribing to our free RSS feed with your favorite feed reader, or here at Bloglines. Also, you can add us to your favorites at Technorati.
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My name is Todd Rhoades, the 'behind the scenes' guy here at MMI. I'm also on the team at Leadership Network (although that doesn't mean that they endorse everything I write here). In my past life, I was the developer of a of a website called ChurchStaffing.com. I hope you'll enjoy your time here and tell all your colleagues about MMI! 
MondayMorningInsight.com | PO Box 446 | Bryan, OH 43506 |
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Posted by kent
Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 8:42 AM
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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 10:09 AM
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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 10:20 AM
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Posted by Brad Raby
Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 10:41 AM
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Posted by Jan
Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 11:48 AM
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Posted by Leonard
Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 11:55 AM
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Posted by Bart
Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 12:15 PM
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Posted by Todd Rhoades
Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 12:28 PM
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Posted by Bart
Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 12:49 PM
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Posted by Brad Raby
Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 1:34 PM
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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 2:08 PM
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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 2:43 PM
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Posted by Bruce
Wednesday, March 07, 2007 at 7:40 PM
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Thursday, March 08, 2007 at 8:55 AM
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Posted by RevJeff
Thursday, March 08, 2007 at 6:10 PM
Post Your Comments:Whoa! I am trendy? Dawg! I have waited my whole life to be trendy. Okay, take a deep breath. Okay, yeah… well now that I am here, what am I supposed to do? I am new at this trendy thing. No really, what’s next?
This reminds me of something I watched last night on TV. A certain pastor from a certain large Texas city was talking about those who talk about him. While I do not normally watch this pastor, I found his take on things interesting. Of course, watching the people in the audience watching him was also beyond fascinating as well.
Kent........... That was hilarious!
Todd… an instigator? NOW you tell us..... lol
I’m trendy, too! Awesome! I thought I was old ‘n busted…
Hey… maybe we’re all trendy! how cool is that. Look for the silver lining! Thanks Kent!
I got 10 bucks that says these guys youth pastors say ‘freaking’ and ‘sucks’ with their youth group. It may be secretly on a retreat, but I guarentee it!
This would be hysterical if it weren’t so sad and pathetic.
That’s it, If I get branded hip and cool one more time here I am going tot preach on th superfluity of naughtiness. I now have to go pick out my new tie for Sunday.
This is a chasm that only my repentance and lining up with these guys would fix. I would have to abandon how I see scripture, ministry, life and God to do this. In my view I can see their points, some of which I hold, most of which I understand. Their posture is they are right, I am wrong and nothing less that being like them is acceptable.
I’m with Kent and Peter. I’m 49 and haven’t been called trendy for a long time. The guys in my Bible study do call me dog though. It stands for Designated Old Guy.
The real problem is in your view of the purpose of the church. Is the pupose of the church to reach the unbeliever or is that the purpose of the individual? Is the purpose of the church to encourage and teach the beliver, or to bring people to Christ? Both views can be supported from scripture so I find that I cannot condenm others or attempt to change them. Isn’t that what we have been seeing, do it my way or you are wrong, from both sides?
Bart said, “Isn’t that what we have been seeing, do it my way or you are wrong, from both sides? “
I hope you’re not hearing that from me… I think John MacArthur has his place; and he is reaching people that Mark Driscoll won’t reach. But I don’t see that spirit from him; but rather a ‘shunning’ of those who don’t do it like him.
There are all types of people; and all types of methods and delivery systems of the gospel are needed.... even strongly ‘conservative’ and ‘trendy’ ones.
Todd
Todd,
I didn’t mean you. Your direction on MMI is very balanced. But from some of John MacAuthur’s comments and others we see a view that anything but thier conservative position is from satan himself, and I hear comments from the emergent or seeker arenas that the conservative or traditional church is just a farse and if you would just follow their model everything would be great. The problem is that to reach twentysomethings in urban areas is radically different than reaching and ministering to seventysomethings in rural Iowa. Neither are incorrect, but both have their place and time. The real question is what is the purpose of the church and that is sometimes answered by who the congregation is. And isn’t that an example of the different parts of the body?
In the continual call for ‘truth’ - shouldn’t it be pointed out by people that Driscoll uses slang rather than cussing, or have I not listened to enough podcasts? I keep seeing that he curses all over the blogasphere...Isn;t there a deliniation between cursing and using slang?
Isn’t the implication to a casual post reader that Mark D is using words that are very profane? That was my impression when I first read Johnny Mac’s article
Sadly enough Brad… to some there is no real difference between the two. And also what you might classify as cussing to others is considered slang. Ex: If I had a dollar for every time the word sl*t is used in my class - I’d be monetarily rich. To the people who use it - normal every day part of their vocabulary. It is a part of their very culture.
First, let me apologize for not being trendy. I admit to reading the King James Version of the Bible when no one is looking. I even [hand my head here] pass out tracts. Then again, maybe I am trendy. I haven’t preached a sermon yet about the evils of wearing bluejeans in church or that women should only wear dresses and men should keep their hair short. Hmmmm. You know I just might be trendy. Led a 22 year old girl to Christ a couple months back and baptized her. Just witnessed to her 19 year old brother two weeks ago. Not bad for an out of date, not with it, 53 year old. The young man colors his hair a different color every other week and does some piercing. Another 25 year old was baptized a couple months back who had some interesting tatoos on her arms. I haven’t changed my language...but could I be trendy? Hmmmm. Is it trendy to look a person in the eye and say, “God loves you.” Is it trendy to take their hand and pray? Is it trendy to put an arm around them and say, “You’re welcome here.” I know it is not trendy when I get permission to speak and say, “Let’s talk about sin.” It is radical. And it works for me whether it is a teen on the street or at the Veteran’s Home where I serve as chaplain for those who survived WWII. Brothers and sisters - let’s keep the main thing the main thing. Love the lost and lead ‘em to Christ.
For us to call certain words sin we better have Biblical justification.I remember the first time I heard a curse word from a preacher........... Youth Camp, early 1970’s John Rawlings of Landmark Baptist temple fame, said in an illustration that he used to clean s___ out of the barns,
BTW I have heard that word a few times since................
I weary of puritanical views over words. There is a time and place for everything.
Bruce
Dan,
Thanks for sharing with us! Always GREAT to hear news like that.
Philippians 1:3-6,
Camey
I guess I’m a “part-time trendy” I haven’t been here for a while, but I am relieved to see that little has changed…
Does that make us “OLD TRUTH” now?
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