1 John, Galatians, and Romans are all pretty clear about sin. We’re supposed to put off the deeds of the flesh. I do believe that a murderer can go to heaven, but to preach that from the pulpit is irresponsible and an incomplete examination of the Scriptures. The gift of the Holy Spirit helps us to avoid the deeds of the flesh. I realize this may be an oversimplification for some, but we don’t sin in order for God’s grace to abound.

People who use God’s grace as a license to sin aren’t really saved at all according to Jude 4. So much to write, so little time.

It doesn’t seem like this pastor is looking at the Justice demands of God in the Old Testament or in Jesus’ teachings either.  That those who spill blood are responsible for their own atrocities, and though forgiveness is possible - it must be true repentance.  I am pretty sure that it doesn’t work out to true and sincere repentance very often, when someone commits atrocities while counting on an end game of forgiveness.  That is a very low level of morality, based on a lack of consequences.  God holds all humanity up to a basic standard - when you kill people (made in the image of God), it is like killing God himself.  The pastor really needs to weigh that in his conversations - as part of the whole Gospel from beginning to end, rather than giving people the portion in the middle (that while magnificent, isn’t the whole story of God). 

Yes, there is forgiveness for those who are sincerely sorry and reform their lives.  But pastors need to remind their congregants to the Image that the prophets portray so often: That of God ruling with power and justice over a wonderful new world where the nations come to God for knowledge, wisdom, guidance, and righteousness.  In that world, there is no place for murderers (those who still harbor evil).  This pastor’s congregants need to know that we need to live according to this ideal image.  God in charge - expecting Good and Righteous (Just) lives of His people.  This kind of faith is not worthless, it refines - makes people stronger and more loving of one another.

This is why good theology and doctrine are so desperately needed in our churches (and sadly, based on this article and others, so often neglected).

The Book of 1 John makes it clear that when a person lives a sinful lifestyle, including focusing on it, planning it, and looking forward to it, that person is of the devil and not of God.  Based on Sodini’s blog and his actions, I genuinely hope that his repentance for his sins before he blew his brains out was the kind that God commands, but have a real tough time believing it based on the volumes of evidence to the contrary.

For his pastor, especially after all of this, to be so casual as to pronounce him saved and in the presence of the Lord in Heaven, shows a man who needs to repent--both of this proclamation and of whatever teachings he gave that made this man believe that his actions were acceptable by God.

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CS

We have told our students that no matter what you do God will always love you.

We never say do what you want & God will forgive you. There are laws of the land that we are held accountable to & commanded to obey them.

There’s nothing you can do to make God love you more & there’s nothing you can do to make God love you less.

Well, we need to hear from the pastor what he said that might have been construed to mean that you can murder and go to heaven.  Given Sodini’s history, it sounds like he might have taken something out of context.  In other words, he heare what he wanted to hear.  But then again, maybe not.  By his reaction, sounds like the church had let him down.  Sounds like he was searching for something different that the church didn’t provide.

Here we go agian, wow it is just amazing to me how twisted it can get. Just like when the famous die, no mention of judgement or retribution, we just see faces in the clouds people say. I think clear Biblical understanding is needed now more than ever. Sin is sepeartion from Jesus our Lord, Romans 6 tells us so, James 5 lays it out as well, 2nd Timothy lays it clear. All I can say is Wow to this easy grace filled society. WOW.

Kerry....great point!

Travis,

I have no problem with a church being huge.  As long as it is growing in numbers because the preaching is Biblical which brings the knowledge of sin and the need for a Savior.  You know...like Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost.  He boldly told those Jews that “they have a God-shaped hole in their hearts that only God can fill” and “God loved them and has a wonderful plan for their life” and “just ask Jesus into their hearts because He stands at the door and knocks...” I’m sure he had them all sign a commitment card as well.  If we would just do like Peter did on the Day of Pentecost, then we would have churches grow at a rate of 3000 every time we preach it and they would all be true believers!

CS...you say it better than me.

Fishon...you can’t lose your salvation..IF..you are saved by the miracle of God’s regenerating power of His Holy Spirit.  Damnation is God’s response to man’s choice....salvation is man’s response to God’s divine choice.  Many are deceived by the preaching of a different gospel that they are saved. They get just what they want....a god that is ok with their sin.

Peter,

Wasn’t Paul trying to remind the Galatians that their salvation was NOT by works nor the keeping of religious traditions but by the grace of God.  This epistle was written to correct the believers in that region from the erroneous teachings that had worked their way into that church.  It doesn’t negate the importance of using the Law in evangelism. On the contrary, it affirms it. (Gal 3:24) Sodini is the result of neglecting the importance of the Law in modern “Christian” churches today.

Peter,

You challenge me to search Scripture and for that I am thankful to God for you.  I enjoy our discussions...I really do.  Make no mistake...or as our president says “let me be clear”...I absolutely agree with you in that no one is saved by the Law in that keeping the Law, or attempting to, can lead to righteousness.  But Nathan the Prophet, Jesus, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and John all used the Law in an effort to bring about the knowledge of the seriousness of sin.  That’s what it does and it does it well.  It is the knowledge of sin that causes men to cry out “What must I do to be saved?” I was a member of Healing Place Church in Baton Rouge from May of 01 to July of 03.  I can honestly say that in the 2 yrs I was there, I cannot remember ONE sermon from any of the pastors there that expounded on the high standard of God’s righteousness.  Not once in those 2 years did Pastor Dino Rizzo ever teach a book of the Bible.  Every sermon was topical and some never even opened the Bible.  It is churches like this that are hotbeds for doctrinal ignorance.  Joel Osteen is another one.  No doctrine at all!

You wrote: “Sodini is the result of a defective emotional state, who knows what caused by, exacerbated by bad religious teaching, but not, I think caused by it. If he truly thought that he could just believe in Jesus and do what he wanted, it is obvious from Scripture and from plain reason and experience that he was not even close to being regenerate.”
I like the way you put that....I wish I would have said it that way.

In his post, Todd wrote, “Is it responsible to teach your church that committing mass murder is a forgiveable offense?  Ahh… I don’t think so.” While it may not have been responsible to “assure” someone that since they have made some sort of statement of faith in Christ, they get a free pass and will go to heaven anyway, I think that it is important that we do talk responsibly about God’s forgiveness.  The stories (the veracity of which I can not confirm) of Jeffrey Dahmer’s conversion underscores the the power of God in forgiving those who commit the most heinous of crimes.  Certainly none of us would say that God couldn’t, or wouldn’t, forgive even the most egregious offenders.  Responsible teaching will seek to address all the issues surrounding grace, justice, righteousness, love and forgiveness. 

Also, without a bit more insight into what the pastor actually taught (or said in passing), I must agree with Jeff and give this pastor the benefit of the doubt.

Leonard:

“His blog, his actions and his history at the church (being banned for harassing a woman) all cast a gigantic shadow of doubt as to his ability to hear clearly what this pastor taught. “

That’s fine, but then the deacon (not pastor, as I originally thought) should not be so swift to pronounce him as being soundly saved and in Heaven right now.  Such a proclamation can cause a variety of problems both inside and outside the church.

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CS

Context.  We’re taking that one tiny segment of Sodini’s blog and not getting the full context.

I read the full blog - because I live in Pittsburgh and was clearly feeling the pain of the tragedy at the health club.

Sodini was being sardonic and quite clearly making fun of his former Pastor.  He said “if you don’t believe me call him” and he gave his phone number, and even his home address. 

He was very bitterly criticizing the teachings of the Church as a whole.

He very clearly did not have any faith what so ever.

I would not be so quick to pick the Pastor apart here.  Sodini was clearly delusional and… well nuts.

I believe his Pastor told him that Jesus loves you no matter what.

The blog is still out there places if anyone wants to read it, but it’s so disturbing that I’d not recommend it.

Oh I disagree phx. The Bible makes it clear that those who do not become follower of Jesus, through repentance, will not be in heaven.

I will just make a wild guess: One of the men on the cross with Jesus is in heaven, the other is not.
fishon