I trust people to be true to themselves.

Yes, that is intended to be a loaded statement but seems to bear itself out pretty well.

I am the associate pastor of a church and I have a great level of trust and confidence in my senior pastor as well as the rest of the church staff.  I realize that people in other churches probably don’t.  Part of that is because they have been hurt by bad leaders in the past.  Situations like this can be tough because there are still good leaders who have integrity in the Body of Christ, but many times once a person looses trust in or is hurt by a pastor or leader, they are skeptical of every other pastor they serve under and hold their former pastor’s failures over the new pastors head. 

And what people don’t realize is if you have trust issues with your pastor, your trust issue is REALLY with God.

I don’t feel like I’m naive in saying this, but I feel like the people I work with will always act with honesty and integrity.  I have observed conduct on our staff that was unethical, which, if exposed, would seriously violate the public trust.  And I’ve seen my pastor loving respond to various situations, make changes or remove people from leadership and take leaders through counseling and restoration processes when necessary; all the while teaching and edifying the church through the process.  I pray our church isn’t in the minority.  These situations still haven’t changed my views about our staff.  Everyone makes mistakes, but admitting them and dealing with them properly and trusting God through these processes so that our trust in Him (and the leaders He places us under) aren’t compromised are key.

Hey Mike Shepherd. Are you still in Denver, or is this not you?
If it is, I’m formerly from Steamboat and would love to catch up with you. Drop me a line at my email

As to the question at hand.
I have trust now at a mega-church, but did not in a 350person church. My personal struggles were with people who chose power-mongering and control over others versus allowing God control. I think the issue is bigger than just the setting, I think it stemms from one’s personal relationship with God. If you trust him and don’t have fear, than you will make a trustworthy leader (in the fulles sense), and if you don’t you will result to unhealthy, even sinful, behavior patterns. Sin may sound strong to some, but isn’t anything than complete trust in God sin? Getting all this worked out in real life is part of the transformation process.

I’ll be curious to how many guarded responses you get with this one… Fear might skew it!!

Prov 29: 2, 4,5, 10 2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked [man] rules, the people groan…4 The king establishes the land by justice, But he who receives bribes overthrows it.  5 A man who flatters his neighbor Spreads a net for his feet… 10 The bloodthirsty hate the blameless, But the upright seek his well-being. NKJV

Todd I think you are on to something.  When the church leaders attempt to mimic the business world model, by default they embrace her practices.  I have been in both environments and have seen the parallels.  Jesus’ Words ought to indict us – YES, yes, No, no. Unfortunately, bait and switch, flatter and stab, put down to climb up, exalt talent over character, and the good ole boy, “I’ll overlook your transgressions but micro- manage the outsider” is all too prevalent in the church. When Human nature trumps Holy Scripture we have a serious problem. I have been in the ministry since 1993 and have seen extortion, manipulation, lying, coercion of others for evil, and fraud.  I have been in the position to “clean up” some things.  Once, while assuming a new pastorate, I uncovered such illegal/unethical activity that I was counseled by other men of faith just to leave the situation. (My incoming practice is to have an outside audit of the records) I chose to stay and to start the process of setting things in order only to have the previous pastor accuse me of his crimes. It got so hostile in the church and surrounding churches (pastors) toward me that I had to advise all I would be willing to let a secular court examine all and sort out the accusations and administer the appropriate justice.  When the legal process was mentioned the wolves ran and the rhetoric ceased. The church is now none existent…. But let me say, I have seen some stellar examples of good and those churches might not make vogue magazine but the health is good and godly.

Let me answer your original questions:
1.  If you’re a church staff member, do you have a good level of trust and confidence in your senior pastor?  If you’re a senior pastor, do you have a good level of trust and confidence in your staff? ----- I’m not on staff but I am guardedly confident.
2.  Do you feel that people you work with always act with honesty and integrity? – I have a Para- church ministry—not better than 50%- George Barna on pastor and biblical worldview plays out in my experience almost to the letter 52%
3.  Have you, over the past 12 months, observed any conduct on your staff that was either illegal or unethical, which, if exposed, would seriously violate the public trust? – Not in the past twelve months but 3 occasions (churches/pastors) in the past 2 years.
Let us pray for REAL renewal—starting in me first, evidenced in scriptural, Spirit led self evaluation.

I know this doesn’t represent answers to the questions posed, but I just read some of the responses and disagree with a statement that was made…

“And what people don’t realize is if you have trust issues with your pastor, your trust issue is REALLY with God. “

Maybe I’m just not understanding this statement completely, but we indeed had trust issues with our former senior pastor and I’m fairly certain those trust issues were solely with him and not with God. I realize he is/was God’s annointed, BUT he is still a fallible human being and rather than try and talk through some mistakes made, all he wanted to do was stand on his soapbox and declare that he was the final authority on everything. He definitely reaped what he sowed.

As I read the comments by Mike Shepherd and others I recall what I shared with another youth pastor who had a similar experience at a church I know closely.  When he felt he was treated wrong by senior pastoral staff I encouraged him with a story.  I too had some problems with people above me in a church.  I was treated wrong and it affected my pocketbook, my ministry, and my health.  But I shared this story....
A ministry friend of mine and I were out riding a bike and he was lamenting the days when he was younger and was picked last on the kick-ball team and other teams.  He said he hated being picked last and wondered why organizations (school) would allow that kind of structure in their picking of teams because it hurt so much.  I answered.... it builds character in you.... then he replied “but I wouldnt do that to someone else!” I answered See!
Take Notes Mike....
Make an oath to yourself that you will never treat staff under you the same way you were treated!  Chalk it up fo poor leadership styles but dont continue the tradition!  Blessings, You are the type of person I would love to work with!
Press on!  I have felt your pain and you are not alone!

I think there is a reason that the bible instructs us to be above reproach.  I find most people who struggle with trusting me as a pastor do so because of their history not mine.  I have people say, you remind me of my dad, I don’t trust my dad.  I had a pastor who… so I don’t trust pastors.  One of the issues I deal with in leadership training is the issue of trustworthiness.  How to become trustworthy.  Here are a couple issues we deal with:

humor - Make sure your humor is appropriate and gentle.  People will not perceive you at trustworthy if you only joke with them or your joking crosses the line.

Consistency - People will not trust you if you are pastor Jeckel and minister Hyde.  Be the same from the front, the side and the back. 

Transparency - People are amazingly willing to give you room to be human if you are willing to take it.  too often pride keeps us from taking it.

Give your team grace - Let them fail without losing trust. People fail, it is in our DNA.  when people are free to fail they become more free to try and risk. 

I believe trust and love must be unconditional in order for them to be effective.  I give my team unconditional trust meaning it is not in jeopardy with error.  I also coach for success meaning with unconditional trust does not come unlimited rope.  Each team member must present and work a plan that is connected to the whole.

Ray wrote “I trust people to be true to themselves.”

Indeed a loaded statement but accurate as well.  Much of the hurt we experience from unethical actions from our leaders is because we expect them to be perfect.  The defense mechanism we then develop is that we expect everyone to act with a broken and bent nature towards sin and then we will not be disappointed when their sin is found out.  This is a very sad and jaded way to live and interact with people.

Are we wrong to anticipate a higher level of ethical behavior from our church leaders?  This is not expecting them to be perfect, but am I safe to assume that a church leader should know how to deal with sin in his or her own life.

I think that my main issue with Ray’s statement is that it leads to pessimism and can develop into a situation like what I am dealing with now:

Currently I am working with a church member on resolving an issue when she commented that since she and I haven’t got along well since I arrived (2 yrs. ago) that she couldn’t help with a recent event.  I was greatly surprised by that statement and so I began to pursue a meeting with her to discern the source of the strife and seek forgiveness and restore the relationship.  I was surprised again when she commented that she didn’t expect a response from me because previous pastors in this church had assumed that biblical commands didn’t apply to them (i.e. Pastors are above the law).  I pray that I can gain her trust. 

But how difficult it can be to work as a pastor when the sins of those who have gone before you are counted against you.  This is the pessimism that I am talking about.  Why do we do this to people?

Earnesto -
A confidence has been broken between the elder and the pastor already. Who says that what the elder has told you is necessarily the truth?

Go to your pastor. If he has issues that you both need to address, this will open the door to that and a possible new-found line of communication for truthfulness between you.

If he discovers you know something, it will only reflect poorly on you - as you have kept it from him. Then you have a bigger dilemma - how does he keep you on staff then?

Sit down with him, pray with him, and open up the can - who knows but that you may have been placed there for such a time as this?

Show integrity by being transparent in your dealing with him. God will take care of the rest.

I had a pastor a couple of years ago that was plain confusing.  Verbally he was great. Affirming, loving, positive, etc.  But he continually gave clues that he did not mean what he said.  For example he would tell me to call him on Monday and I would call & give his secretary a message, and again on Tuesday & Wednesday, Etc.  He would return my calls 3 to 5 days later 9 times out of 10.  he would envision with we where I could serve and when an opportunity arose I would go to him and he would say sorry that has been taken care of.  I would schedule 1 hour meetings with him and he would tell me he only had 30 minutes. (I would drive 20+ minutes one way to be there.) These were not one time events, they happened repeatedly over a 1-2 year period.

When I finally met with him to “discuss” the issues that had come between us we had a good meeting, but we didn’t get to the things i outlined above.  I emailed him that I enjoyed the meeting but wanted to share a few things that had bothered me so there would not be anything left between us.  He responded by telling me he wasn’t interested in hearing about it if it was in the past.  A year later he invited me to come back to his church in an email.

I admit that my pastor now pays for the distrust that guy taught me.  Trust is coming more slowly.  It grows as I get to know his heart, not what he tells me about his heart.

“Much of the hurt we experience from unethical actions from our leaders is because we expect them to be perfect. “

David, I have to strongly disagree. 

I tend to trust first, which is good, I think.

But I’ve been through some terrible situations of pastors who betrayed trust.  Never did I expect them to be perfect, but real yes, honest, ethical and just plain decent would be good too.

A youth pastor who was molesting young girls, many of them my friends.  A senior pastor where we served as youth pastor, who lied to our face and played politics behind our backs.  Misrepresentation of church positions and salaries and ministry expectations when we were finally there and it was a “done deal so what can you do about it now?” The stories could go on and on.. the pastors who’ve had affairs, are into porn or never preached a sermon they didn’t pull off the internet. (and claimed was theirs).  Bad checks written by pastors to others in ministry.

The church we are serving in now, was led by a charlatan who called himself pastor but sought to get the property, for his own gain (like he’d done to another church).  (The guy before us)

There is unfortunately, good reason for distrust of pastors.  I ‘ve definitely seen more fake then authentic in my 45 years of church life. 

By the way, since we are the only staff members, I ‘m not sure how to answer the questions.
And Leonard, I liked your comments!

Some of the words here are filled with hurt and on behalf of leadership I am so sorry that some leaders have hurt your hearts.  Many people in leadership struggle to handle the power that comes with leadership.  It is so difficult to put everything into a ministry only to have a drive by spectator who gives 75 minutes a week to sit in a service tell you how to improve.  And while that is never a excuse for sinful behavior, it is how Satan isolates so many leaders.  The pull back because they themselves do not trust the people.  They do not trust the people to give – seeing 80,000 dollar cars in the lot and a tip for God in the plate.  They do not trust the people to serve – seeing a few people work hard every week while they show up late and leave immediately after the last song.  Anyone in ministry knows the rest of this very long list.  Many leaders mistrust their people and IMO mistrust breeds mistrust simply because we are guarded and looking for failure.