When are people going to stop answering rhetorical questions?

Fishon,
I wold say if I were outside of the family of God, I might be less inclined to come into the family based upon the bashing done by those watchdogs.  We all support unspeakable evil, it is just that some of our evil is more tolerable than others. 

This is not a Sunday Service, it is a conference for the specific purpose of AIDS Awareness.  Considering the churches total neglect of this topic overall and in the past, maybe we should not be so quick to judge.

I am sure you probably didn’t mean to put all responsibility on someone outside of the faith while taking it off the people who know Christ but you did.  Christians are responsible to live in harmony, be at peace with others you know that kind of stuff.  Our good behavior is supposed to be a testimony to people who do not know Christ but we cannot seem to quit fighting among ourselves. 

We let gossips in our churches all the time, we let them lead music, speak and even run our prayer chains.  I know causes I am one of them.  I have tons of sin, I just mask it better than others.  I think it is about time the church started to take seriously the issue of HIV, many people outside of Christ do.  But when someone like Warren invited Hilary or like last year Obama to come to the summit, Republicans fundamentalists get their panties in a wad and harp on Warren. 

I wonder who is in a better position to share Christ with Hillary, Rick Warren or Ingrid?

Your reasoning about persecution seems backwards.  Persecution draws people because of the priority put on loving and knowing Christ is more than life.  Bickering belittles and demeans the power of Christ. 

Your reasoning for opposing this comes across more political than biblical, certainly an opinion we are entitled to have except if we cross the line by trashing a brother in Christ over a political opinion.

Fishon,
No frustration here but thanks for making that clear on your end. 
It is not that the other issues are not important, I have lost family to heart disease, drunk driving and cancer, but your question baffles me.  Your question, Why HIV?  15,000,000 orphans because of HIV and AIDS in the African Sub Sahara.  It has become a pandemic.  This disease is devastating an entire continent.  It is spreading in other places like this too.  For far too long, going back to many Fundie preachers who declared AIDS to be God’s judgment on homosexuals (completely idiotic thing to say) the church has sat silent on this issue. 

Could it be the Holy Spirit put HIV issues in Rick Warren’s heart? 

We are to confront sin when we see it.  But too often we are calling an opinion about someone’s choice a sin.  Are you saying Rick is in sin for having Hillary or Obama speak at a conference on HIV that is at his church?  If this is sin where does the bible call this sin? 

How much do you know about the conference?  Did you investigate its purpose, its lineup of speakers, and its time frame?  My guess is that a huge number of people who criticize Warren do not even know the name of the conference without looking it up, thought it was on a Sunday morning in his services, and know very little about the plight of HIV or AIDS in this world.  They are simply parroting some fundies harping on warren, band-waggoning is not confronting.

Is Rick responsible to these people who are uniformed, not on their way to becoming informed, choosing to stay uninformed?  Do they not have a responsibility to actually say, “I better find out what this is about before I make a judgment?” Shouldn’t they move past letting discernment websites and others think for them?  They are not getting stronger by letting the voice of watchdogs become theirs.  Your example of Paul and Peter is out of context and overplayed. 

As for me bashing Jerry or Ingrid?  I will say I have in the past but in all honesty, I confessed that and have not for a long time.  I don’t give them much time or energy.  I came from that background and try like crazy to stay away.  I have a huge amount of respect for Jerry Fallwell even though he drove me nuts sometimes.  The reason I included Ingrid in my post was because of her piece on slice about Warren.  But if you will notice I did not bash her.  But thanks for pointing out what you perceive could possibly be my sin and then attributing a childlike response to me.  Good times there. (smiley face here, the one with the wink)

i knew hillery would get in church some way, if she thinks they can help her get in office she will use it, her morals are to low for me, but if she can help the aids victims then let her go, but personally i dont think we need someone with pms in office, some woman might do a good job, but her standers are wicked, she loves to kill babies, homosexually is fine with her, and only god knows what else,

Shouldn’t we all be rejoicing that Hillary went to church?

Not disagreeing on the morality of abortion but I just don’t think we can say she loves to kill babies.  This is not about pastors taking God out of the church or politicians taking God out of everything else.  This is about being responsible with words.  Someone can hold a position that is wrong and still be sincere.  I believe there are many positions Hillary holds that are wrong both morally and biblically, I wouldn’t vote for her but I also would not want to go on record as saying she loves to kill babies, wont be a good president because of PMS…

Maybe Paul was on to something when he penned these words…Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Colossians 4:6

It is that kind of talk/writing that does not set us up as right but as judgmental jerks.

about that we can agreeably dasgree

Fishon and Deaubry –

Do you read the newspaper?  Did you or do your children attend public schools or institutions?  Listen to talk radio?  Watch the evening news or shows like 20/20 or Nightline?  Ever sit in the lunch room at work and chat with non-Christians about issues? 

We all are informed by non-Christians all the time.  Not-yet-redeemed people can (and do) have great knowledge that we need, that is vital to our ability to effectively address a crisis.  Hillary and Obama may not be experts, but either one might be leading our nation a year from now.  I for one, want to know what they think we, as the richest and most able nation on the planet, should be doing to address the world-wide crisis of Aids. 

Deaubry, why fault Hillary for simply accepting an invitation to a conference that happens to be held at a church, like she is trying to get the “evangelical vote,” and not fault even more Huckabee for running an ad calling himself a “Christian leader.” In my mind, he is the one to find fault with (not her – at least for her appearance at the Aids conference).  His ad prostituted his faith, using Jesus as a campaigning tool.  Shame on him.

The Apostle Paul said: “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?  God will judge those outside.” (1 Cor. 5:12).  Jesus would never have called one of the broken and misguided people he came to reach a baby-killer.  The worst term he ever used was “whitewashed tombs,” and he used that term when speaking to religious leaders, and IMO, a term he would probably use with his church (at least with me) on occasion.  Let’s remember who our enemy is and who is in our mission field.

And finally, why Aids?  The fact that an American would ask such a question, with every medical resource at his fingertips (for cancer, Aids or a hang nail), shows a complete lack of understanding and also an unacceptable lack of compassion.  Read up a little.  Get a grasp of the helplessness of the people ravaged by the affects of this disease on their families and their society.  Sorry . . . your comment incenses me!!  I’ve been to Africa and worked with Aids victims.  Sat next to a grandmother who was dying of Aids, given to her by her polygamist husband.  She is leaving behind 7 orphan children, whose parents have also died of Aids.  There are hundreds of thousands like her, millions of orphans like the ones she’s leaving.  Ask them, “why should we bother ourselves about Aids?” I am SOOOOO thankful for Rick Warren and his efforts to wake up rich, American evangelicals.

Wendi

Deaubry –

First, I don’t mean to minimize the pain of losing a loved one to a dreaded disease like cancer.  But with all due respect, there is no comparison between the pain and suffering endured by Americans when they are sick, and the desperation of people in sub-Saharan Africa.  After my trip to Africa I developed some respiratory problems that were debilitating, and very difficult to diagnose or manage.  I and my family were frustrated with the medical system, wanting answers and feeling that solutions were reasonable to expect and not forthcoming.  In the midst of my frustration, I felt conviction.  The people I’d met in Africa would never expect (much less demand) answers.  And yet, so many of the issues that plague them are much more easily solved than my problem.  By comparison, the things they need to ease their pain are cheap . . . clean water, healthy food, simple anti-viral drugs . . . things we can have by running to the corner store or swiping our credit card. 

I’m not sure who you are accusing of talking out of both sides of their face.  Rick Warren, for inviting Hillary to an Aids conference?  I think God calls all of us to consider the inconsistencies in the things we get on soap boxes about.  I believe in the sanctity of life, but after my trip to Africa, I am convinced that God intends we intercede whenever the sanctity of life is jeopardized.  We must not choose when to protect life.  Thousands of innocent babies die in the U.S. because of abortion, millions of innocent children die because of Aids, and we have much more power to impact the latter than the former. 

For me personally, my responsibility to affirm the sanctity of life extends to our enemies.  I believe that Jesus wanted us to take his words about loving our enemies literally, which is why I oppose the death penalty.  Nevertheless, I would never call someone who disagrees with me a killer.  Many wonderful Christian people (my husband included) do not share my interpretation of scripture. 

Hillary, as far as I know, does not seek scripture as her counsel when determining the sanctity of life.  This doesn’t make her my enemy, it means that she is in our mission field.  Let’s take the Apostle Paul’s counsel here.  Let’s worry about accountability to those inside our sphere of influence and our witness to those on the outside.

Wendi

Here comes the other side of my face… I get the question you pose Peter and I get why but the reality is the question frustrates me.  Abortion is tragic.  Over 1/3 of my generation was aborted.  The cure to cancer?  The cure to aids?  Who knows how Satan has used abortion. 

The devastation in the lives of countless numbers of women who believed abortion was a harmless choice can only be measured by someone as great as God. 

To juxtapose abortion to the plight of those with HIV and AIDS in Africa harms and dishonors both creation and creator.  It is being done by many well meaning and kind hearted Christ followers but to what end?  Division.  And we know who the author of divisiveness is.  I get that Jesus divides but not like this.  God grieves over both of these issues.

Peter – yes, I do agree with the premise of your question, strongly agree.  And Leonard, I don’t see how Peter’s question harms creator and creation. 

I believe that when Jesus said: “For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me,” He was giving us some insight into the type of work He wanted us to do.

You see, American Christians have made the fight to save unborn babies a political fight.  But Jesus didn’t every fight against the laws of the land, and neither is there biblical record that the early Christians used political means be a kingdom influence.  Certainly there was much disregard for human life in the 1st century political structures as there is in the 21st century. 

Although I believe abortion is a blight in our society, I also believe fighting political battles to end it is simply poor stewardship.  Rather, we should find ways to befriend women who are considering or have had abortions, be Jesus to them and try to prevent the cycle from continuing . . . one person at a time.

On the other hand, if we took our passion for the sanctity for life to sub-Saharan Africa . . . if we joined arms and resources to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, befriend the stranger, look after the sick . . . we could make such a huge kingdom impact. 

I know, I know . . . just because Jesus didn’t do something (like fight political battles) doesn’t mean we are precluded from doing it.  For me though, it seems better to evaluate the kind of things He did during His short ministry, and try to do similar.  In the 21st century, I don’t think we’re going to be let off the hook about Africa.  We “see” this crisis clear as a bell . . . and I don’t want to be in the group that Jesus admonished because they failed to serve the “least of these . . .”

We’re going back to Africa in June.  Maybe our paths will cross Peter.

Wendi