Kirk Cameron: “Am I ever going to hear the message that will save my soul from Hell?R
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Wed, June 20, 2007
- Viewed 136
- (82) comments so far
Will you ever tell me the truth clearly enough so that I realize that my sin has made me an enemy of God: that I am currently on the path that leads to destruction, with the wrath of God dwelling upon me, and that unless I repent and put my faith in the Savior, I will perish? Or have you decided that it’s better to simply entertain me, and on Sundays I can come to have my “felt needs” met with good music and good advice? Pastor, while I would appreciate that, it’s the ultimate betrayal of my trust in you if you don’t tell me the truth. Will I ever hear the words “repent,” “surrender,” “turn to the Savior,” “be born again”? If you don’t tell me those things, how will I ever know to do it? Please don’t leave it up to the Wednesday night small-group leader. They’re taking their cues from you. You’re leading the flock.
And now I speak to you as a Christian. If you and I fail to teach the whole counsel of God, and we don’t warn sinners to flee from the wrath to come, and run to the love of Christ on the Cross to save their soul, we make a terrible mistake. It doesn’t matter how happy a person is- how much a sinner is enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season- without the righteousness of Christ, he’ll perish on the Day of Judgment. The Bible says, “Riches profit not on the Day of Wrath, but righteousness delivers from death.” You see, that’s how Kirk Cameron realized he needed a Savior. I had riches, but I knew that it was the righteousness of God that I needed in order to be saved from my sin.
Any thoughts?
HT: Alpha and Omega
Growing Pains star Kirk Cameron recently addressed the SBC pastors convention via video... here is part of his presentation: Can I speak to you from my heart for a moment? I realize that, theologically, I’m not worthy to wash your socks. But imagine this scenario with me, if you will: Imagine I’m a “seeker”- I’m a non-Christian, sitting in your church week after week after week listening to you. Am I ever going to hear the message that will save my soul from Hell?
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Spica on Wed, June 20, 2007
He totally nailed it…
eric wright on Wed, June 20, 2007
I like his humility. He admits to his lacking, but then gives his perspective. It also sounded like someone speaking out of love for the church and not simple to judge the wrongs they perceive are being done.
Wendi on Wed, June 20, 2007
I think if I were an SBC pastor, I might respond by saying something like this:
Kirk,
It wasn’t the words of a pastor that convicted you of sin your, it was the Holy Spirit. The beautiful thing about the work of the HS is that He enters into a conversation with each person individually and uniquely. The sovereignness of His work is this; although every person needs to fully understand their depravity and separation from God, every person comes to this understanding differently. You apparently came to this understanding like a ton of bricks hitting you on a Sunday morning listening to a sermon, and you responded accordingly. My experience was more like this;
I began to get a hint about my depravity in a youth rally. It wasn’t completely explained, but enough was explained to get me thinking that I had a problem worth considering. Also, I noticed something in the people who were part of this group (YFC) that I wanted to be with them. A friend (not a close friend, but a new friend) invited me to a small group bible study with other girls. It was here that the scope of my problem became clear, as well as the scope of the solution. By the time I fully understood what a terrible person I was (am), I was in relationships with people who I understood this about me and still loved me. I think, if I had gotten the whole picture at that youth rally, before I had any kind of relationship with another Christian person, I’d have felt hopeless instead of hopeful.
And Kirk, my ministry experience has been that most people are more like me than you. That is why we don’t hammer people with the message every Sunday morning from the pulpit. Instead we speak the truth, encourage questions more than we spout off all the answers, and guide people to relationships where we trust the Holy Spirit will unfold the whole story for them. And praise the Lord, it works!!!
So to answer your question, yes, we always tell the truth enough that you will understand you are a sinner, deserving God’s wrath but able to receive His grace. I don’t tell it alone from the pulpit, but we tell it together, as a community of faith. We believe that it takes the community to fully communicate grace. Stick around after the sermon for a few weeks and you’ll see for yourself . . .
Wendi
Daniel on Wed, June 20, 2007
Some might argue that the wage of sin is death. Not ‘hell’. Some might also argue that ‘hell’ is a post-biblical construct (which fuses both the Greek ‘Hades’, which is simply death, and references to the valley of Hinnom—Gehenna—which is a metaphor for total destruction), and that God’s wrath is always (by OT and NT prophets) conceived historically. God’s wrath was poured out on Israel, and Jesus was a ransom for many. The story has moved on.
The point now is not to scare people with empty threats of a metaphysical post-mortem torture-chamber, but rather to point out that the wage of sin (at personal and corporate levels) is still death, and that God is remaking the world, and invites us to repent and join him.
My two cents.
-Daniel-
Wendi on Wed, June 20, 2007
I think that is worth at least 20 cents Daniel, because it is soooo valuable to remind us that if salvation is about nothing more than getting to heaven (and out of hell) when we die, we might as well all cash it in as soon as confess our sins. This is a pretty miserable place, EXCEPT for the influence of redemption infiltrating all of creation . . . through the redeemed. And that is an important truth, regardless of one’s theological views about hell.
Wendi
Peter Hamm on Wed, June 20, 2007
Kirk says “If you and I fail to teach the whole counsel of God,” and I totally understand his passion and devotion, but the whole counsel of God includes ministering to felt needs and being nice to people.
And it also includes presentations of the Gospel that are not necessarily delivered in the exact words Kirk has decided it needs to be.
just another .02
Leonard on Wed, June 20, 2007
We see people come to Christ almost EVERY week in our church because we ask them too in partnership with God’s Holy Spirit. No matter what I may be speaking about, at the end of a service I simply ask, If you are sitting there and realize you do not know this God we are speaking about today, that would be the starting place. in more than 90% of our services people respond with a yes, I want that Jesus.
With that being said, He is right in that over 200,000 churches in this country will not lead anyone to Christ in the next 12 months. The average church will lead less than one person to Christ this year, His style might not be for everyone but his message is accurate that pastors must lead that way.
KC on Wed, June 20, 2007
I agree with the fact that we have a calling to share the gospel with those who don’t have a relationship with Jesus, but there are factors that come into play. Living in Oklahoma (Bible Belt), a very large percentage of the population knows of the gospel, and have been told of their sins in church as well as the street corner and elsewhere. They have been told so much, that they can probably share the Romans road, FAITH outline, EE, etc. back to the church folk. The problem is that they grow bitter and resistant when they are continually approached and notified of their sin (just us judging them from their perspective). The point I’m making is although some run to Christ upon the realization of their sin, others must experience true love and life transparency from sincere everyday seeking believers. Kindness leads to repentance. There are lots of ministries that use scare tactics to get people to “pray the prayer”, but I would love to know the stats on those folks, what percentage goes on to be dedicated followers of Jesus. Those who accept Christ through relationships have an earthly example. Hopefully the believer(s) loving on them have shown them what following Jesus really means.
Mark Broadbent on Wed, June 20, 2007
“Everybody Spends Eternity Somewhere” - Andy Stanley
A friend of mine once told me that evangeslism should be like selling a house. Instead of spending all out time showing people how to sign the contract, we need get them to experience the house… walk through the rooms, imagine what life would be like etc.
I really liked my friends idea. But it didn’t sit right.
A couple of days later, I realised the problem. WE ARE NOT TRYING TO SELL A HOUSE. WE ARE RESCUING PEOPLE FROM A FIRE.
The truth is, Jesus was not hanging on the cross so that I could have purpose and meaning in life. So that I could sort out my relationships or my finances.
Jesus was hanging on the cross because there is a coming wrath, and in the words of Andy Stanley: “Somebody has to pay”.
So should we preach judgement - of course. It is primarily because of this judgement that I need Jesus. Yes Jesus can give me purpose in life. Yes he can make me more loving. Yes he can chnage my life. BUT HE WAS ON THE CROSS BECAUSE SOMEBODY HAD TO PAY.
Leonard on Wed, June 20, 2007
Mark,
I would say it is not “either/ or” but “both/and.” Jesus did come to give us life and life more abundantly. He came so we could know forgiveness here and now, freedom from sin here and now, purpose and meaning here and now, healthy relationships here and now a well as an eternity with Him. If this were not true IMO the bible would be silent on so many life issues, the law would be silent on life issues too.
Mark Broadbent on Wed, June 20, 2007
Hi Leonard
I agree with you!!! It is certainly both/and.
I guess I am just trying to make the point that Jesus could have done a lot of those things for us without having to go to the cross.
The reason he was on the cross though was because of the coming wrath.
I am all for talking about how Jesus wants to change our life here and now, but somewhere along the journey seekers need to understand that they stand condemned before a holy God unless Jesus pays for thier sin.
Daniel on Wed, June 20, 2007
The problem with focusing on post-mortem hellfire as that from which Jesus saves us is that we miss the pre-mortem hellfires people face every day. Jesus saves us from our sins. Our sins are in the here and now and affect us in the here and now. The wage of sin is death. The wage of pornography is divorce, abortion and heartbreak. The wage of greed is poverty and crime. The wage of pride is scandal and backbiting. Jesus saves us from all of these.
By reducing God’s salvific work to ‘saving souls from hell’, we drastically short-change ourselves. I would suggest that the more biblical paradigm is not to make Jesus ‘my’ or ‘your’ Lord and Savior, but rather to proclaim that Jesus is Lord (whether we choose to acknowledge him or not) and Savior, and that he demands everyone’s allegiance (though in the short run, his purposes are carried forward by the Church).
So yes, we do want people to ‘say the prayer’ (or rather, to be publically baptized), but the prayer isn’t salvific. God’s Spirit is salvific, and God’s Spirit flows freely when the individual will is brought into willing submission under Christ’s Lordship.
Long story boring, the goal is to turn people from death to life. Kirk’s approach doesn’t seem to tell them <u>what</u> they’re turning to. What is life? What is God’s Reign? What is the Kingdom? What does it mean to pledge allegiance to the cross? Am I making sense?
I’m descending into incoherence, so I should probably stop. I hope this was helpful to someone.
Cheers,
-Daniel-
slw on Wed, June 20, 2007
I hated Growing Pains, but find myself liking Kirk Cameron, particularly when he talks like this!
MG on Thu, June 21, 2007
There is a message that honors God which God will bless and through it the Holy Spirit will regenerate the heart of man or woman - to expect a blessing to fall on man when man is in defiant opposition to proclaiming the Truth, as KC outlined very humbly and respectfully, is to expect the unexpectable. All the man-centered methods that are proclaimed as God-honoring and God-blessed by the numbers flocking to them ignore that it is the wide gate and broad way that lead to destruction. Could God bring someone to salvation through a faulty gospel presentation? One might think so, but consider what we are told to do to those who preach a gospel different than that which was given by Paul - we are told to consider them accursed. Have any opponents to this message ever read a non-Message by Eugene Peterson version of Galatians 1? It decries any type of man-centered nature to a gospel and implores the Galatians to be ever vigilant to remain faithful to the message Paul delivered to them and that if he or an angel from heaven were to come and change it, which the Wonderful Plan nonsense does, well they are to be accursed. Not too much room in there to debate his thoughts on the subject, really.
In Mercy and Grace…
Leonard on Thu, June 21, 2007
MG,
The message Paul was decrying in Galatians was about changing grace to works. It was in response to people who came after him and said that you can be forgiven by Christ if you believe and are circumcised. His words were that if someone comes behind me and teaches something different than I have taught…let him be accursed.
Much of the controversy surrounding how the gospel is communicated today is not really about the Gospel as much as it is about style. A new movement is afoot to call the Gospel the entire story of the bible and another to reduce it to three facts and a prayer. I suppose that somewhere in the middle is a better picture. Often people confuse a message Peter, Steven and Paul would give as the whole gospel without taking into account their audiences were primarily Jewish in those messages. Meaning simply, they were explaining to Jewish people the conclusion of their faith as it points to Christ.
In Galatia Paul traveled to give the Gospel to gentiles and was followed by some people who stated basically, Paul did not give you the whole story. See there is a Jesus, there is a salvation, there is a forgiveness to be found after you are circumcised and take on a Jewish faith. Paul followed up his visit with his letter to say, DON’T LISTEN to them.
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