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Church Tithes Continue to Decrease

Orginally published on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 at 1:00 PM
by Todd Rhoades

Church members continue to give less of their income to churches despite increases in membership, according to a study released today by Empty Tomb Inc. "The church as an investment in people's lifestyles is losing market share," said Sylvia Ronsvalle, co-author of the study, "The State of Church Giving Through 2004." Church members gave 2.56 percent of their income in 2004, down from 3.11 percent in 1968, according to the last study on data analyzed by Mrs. Ronsvalle and her husband, John L. Ronsvalle. Both figures are well shy of the biblical 10 percent tithe...

Church giving increased from 1998 to 2001, recovering to early 1970s levels before decreasing to the current average.

The study also found more than 85 percent of contributions to churches funded the general operations of the local congregation, while about 15 percent went toward “benevolence,” which was defined as for “the broader mission of the church, beyond the local congregation.”

“Both of these numbers raise the question, ‘Has the church lost its vision?’ “ Mrs. Ronsvalle said. “Is the church turning into a club, or does the church see itself as salt?”

Brian McAuliffe , chief financial officer and director of operations at Willow Creek Community Church, thinks increasing church attendance may cause per capita giving to decrease.

“A lot of times people who are new to churches don’t understand giving back to God,” he said, whose South Barrington, Ill. “It may take a couple of years before someone feels comfortable and says, ‘Yes, I really believe in this, and I want to give to support that.’ “

Mrs. Ronsvalle said giving began declining in the 1950s when poor Americans became a minority.

“When everyone was poor, you obviously gave. You knew that your kids were one step away from it,” she said. “When we all started getting comfortable in this world ... ministers found that people weren’t so excited hearing about the poor.”

The study estimates the cost of global evangelization—helping to stop global childhood death, providing primary education for all children worldwide and addressing poverty in the U.S.—would cost $15 billion annually, or 28 cents per American Christian per day.

“It’s a question of leadership,” Mrs. Ronsvalle said. “Who can galvanize people to say, ‘We don’t want to live in a world where people are dying?’ “

The Rev. Frank van Dalen, executive director of the General Synod of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church’s foreign missions board, said increasing funding for missions prompts giving to the local church to increase.

“The local budget is never harmed by giving to missions,” he said. “Giving starts to drop when you become focused only on your own needs.”

[from The Washington Times]

FOR DISCUSSION: How is your tithing and giving at your church? Is it up or down per capita? Do you even track such things?

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There are 92 Comments:

Posted by John Burton

Monday, October 30, 2006 at 3:52 PM

The most obvious scriptural evidence is Acts 2. In the beginning of the chapter they were in deep prayer and then there was a supernatural occurance. Only then could the church be birthed. Then, at the end of the chapter we see that believers were in the temple daily.

Churches thesedays often seem to leapfrog the first part of Acts. I propose it may take months or even years to move from Acts 2:1 to Acts 2:6. New plants should not proceed until the power necessary is there to get the job done. All too often new churches are planted in Acts 2:42 instead of Acts 2:1. If this happens, people won’t understand the need for prayer because they didn’t encounter the Person of prayer. Prayer is all about encounters and the infusion of power. I’ve heard it said, “Much prayer, much power, little prayer, little power, no prayer, no power”.

Do we agree that ‘being with God’ in prayer is the most important and dominant activity of a believer’s life every day?
Posted by Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com

Monday, October 30, 2006 at 4:02 PM

I don’t know about spending 2 hrs per day in prayer, but yes, prayer is very important. Without it, we are doing our will rather than God’s will. I try to stay in prayer throughout the day-- talking and listening to God when I can. We have the Holy Spirit inside us to guide and empower us.

...Bernie
Posted by Leonard

Monday, October 30, 2006 at 4:09 PM

We agree that being with God is the most dominat activity of a bleievers life, but I am not sure we agree that prayer is evedence of that. Your dealing with acts 2 is more speculative that textual. It actually does not say they were praying but that they were together.
Posted by

Monday, October 30, 2006 at 5:37 PM

“Do we agree that ‘being with God’ in prayer is the most important and dominant activity of a believer’s life every day?” Most important? Yes. Most dominant? Depends on the day… depends on the believer… depends on the situation.

No one is disputing the importance of a healthy prayer discipline, however, your definition seems very narrow… That’s all. And I still question the value and wisdom in taking a BRAND new believer and making them believe that unless thay are “on their face in prayer” two hours or more a day and seeing visions and having supernatural dreams that they are falling short. Again, in my experience, that is NOT the way to bring a believer along in his habit of regularly daily prayer. For me, some of this kind of thinking just about lost me at the beginning of my walk with Christ.

“ Prayer is all about encounters and the infusion of power. “ I dispute this “definition,” John… Prayer is all about connecting with God in relationship, imho, and communicating with Him.
Posted by

Monday, October 30, 2006 at 5:38 PM

Oh, and to answer the original question, Todd. Giving is up at our church, per person and over-all, and yes we measure such things.
Posted by John Burton

Monday, October 30, 2006 at 5:51 PM

I do understand that new believers are being introduced into something brand new, and to frustrate them is not the right approach. That being said, here’s the point I’m trying to get across- Are those who are responsible for mentoring these new believers modeling a life of fire? Are mature believers regularly experiencing God in prayer? If so, then the new believer is set up well.

Here’s why lengthy prayer is so critical:
First, as we enter the prayer room, we must spend time emptying ourselves. Break in God’s presence. This can often take minutes and often hours. Then, we move into a place of consecration and worship. It can easily take an hour just to stir the atmosphere, to invite the Holy Spirit to burn in our midst. Then, often after several hours, we are ready to actively hear God’s unique instructions. What is he saying? What does he want us to agree with in prayer? What does he lay on our heart? After we have a clear idea of how to pray, then we can start ‘praying’… often hours after we begin. We fight the enemy, intercede for nations, declare the Word of the Lord, etc. But, we only pray about what God lays on our heart. We come into agreement with his specific will for that moment. No laundry lists, no praying for our needs (praying for need reveals doubt- our needs are already guaranteed to be met in the Word) We have an event called ‘prayer in the cave’ where missions teams come here to learn about effective prayer. We go into the cave (an actual cave) in perfect darkness. No light, no leaving… but a lot of repentance, crying out, groaning in the Spirit, hearing God, spiritual warfare, etc. The only way we can be effective in prayer is if we hear God clearly every day and then enforce his will in the atmosphere we’re in. We can literally change atmospheres… demons flee, angels move into position, etc. But it’s not a casual approach. It’s very intentional, desperate and zealous. Tears, hunger pains, etc. It’s very deeply passionate and raw. That’s the environment where the unsaved will find themselves transformed, delivered and empowered in a second.
Posted by Leonard

Monday, October 30, 2006 at 6:36 PM

John, I am sure this is something you do and have found great benefit from, Where is it in the scripture to the degree that you would place it into the should do this verses the here is my experience category. You see I have heard from you that it is in acts 2 but it is not. I have heard you say pastors that do not pray 2 or more hours a day in the way you describe are not worth a dime a dozen, that if we are not craving to be on our face in prayer, it is a reflection of our intimacy with God.

I am not saying prayer is not important, it is essential. I am not saying that pastors should not pray, they must. I am saying that you seem to be putting your definition of how faith and prayer are done on other people without a biblical precedence. Using Acts 2 where prayer is not mentioned as your text for biblical deep prayer, citing the rich young ruler as desperate and rejected when the text gives us neither. John I love your zeal, but be careful not to create a legalistic approach to a close walk with Christ. I am not trying to be argumentative, just encouraging a better use of the scriptures we both love.
Posted by John Burton

Monday, October 30, 2006 at 6:52 PM

I certainly appreciate your comments… dialogue like this is good. The delimna that we must deal with is that there are obstacles to fulfilled missions. Simple questions like, “How do we know what to do in the next season of ministry”, or, “What missions today should I be focusing on” demand an answer. Exactly what does God want me to do in this moment? What’s his missional desire for me in the next twelve hours, twelve days and twelve months?

Verses in scripture that tell us not to lean on our own understanding cause us to be totally dependant on God’s voice. We see in scripture that we should all be prophesying… yet, so few do. I’ve never met anybody who can prophesy (hear God’s voice and then declare his wishes, for example) without nurturing a deep relationship with him. Warfare is another issue. Sometimes it takes a lot to just bust through. Deliverance, fasting, etc… all take time quite often.

I wrote a book titled, “100% Effective Prayer"… I speak on this topic quite a bit. It’s so important to know exactly what to pray for… so the miracles can easily happen. If God’s telling us to war and fast for three days to remove a principlaity in a region, and we don’t hear that instruction, many lives are at great risk. If someone wants prayer for healing, yet God reveals to us that deliverance from spirits of bitterness and anger must come first, to pray for healing alone will be fruitless (usually).

The whole key is this- do we hear God’s voice? I love the ministry at International House of Prayer in Kansas City. You can sign up for a prophecy session. You go into a room with three people there. There is a tape recorder so everything is captured. We all pray, and then these seasoned people (often very young, but very good at hearing God) prophesy with stunning accuracy. These people literally pray 6 hours a day!
Posted by

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 6:59 AM

John writes “The whole key is this- do we hear God’s voice?” Well, I’ve seen that you’ve written a book on prayer so I understand your passion on this. However… scripturally speaking, I’m not sure that statement is true.

Generally, the great commandment and the great commission have been thought of as “the whole key” to the Christian life. I’ll take someone who prays 15 minutes a day but loves God passionately and loves and serves their neighbor over someone who spends 6 hours in prayer and obviously loves God… but does nada for his neighbor… And… hard as it is for me to believe, there are those folks it seems…

Love God… Love others… you can’t separate them and they are the main thing. Prayer? VITALLY important for every believer, but not necessarily in the doses and methods that you proclaim. I’d rather step over to my neighbor and find out how to serve him and love him than pray and fast for three days to “remove a principality”.

Back to original point… I think the key to the question, the key to the issue is for the church (that’s you and I) to BE the church and love the world we are in. Is prayer a part of that? Sure. But, John, you make it sound like prayer is the ONLY thing… It’s not. It might be the “first” thing, but it might not even be the “main” thing… at least acording to the great commission and great commandment…
Posted by Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 9:28 AM

Here’s a comic about tithing:
http://www.sheepcomics.com/strips/percent/percent.htm

It’s not so funny when you realize the parody is mostly true in most evangelical churches :-(

...Bernie
Posted by John Burton

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 11:17 AM

If we truly understand the power of prayer (or any other discipline like tithing, fasting, etc.) we’ll crave to do it night and day. I don’t mean any disrespect at all- but I find it stunning that so many people go to such great lengths to minimize prayer. “Certainly, we should all pray, BUT...” I once spoke at a conference, and asked in the middle of the teaching, “How many of you have never heard God?” 90% raised their hand! How do they know what God has for them to accomplish? I’m not talking about fulfilling their Christian roles (feeding the poor, serving, etc.), but fulfilling their unique calling. How do they know what their mission is for the next twelve hours? What if God wanted them to do something, how would they know? It’s a very dangerous way to live. I tell people that if they haven’t discovered how to hear God they are in great peril. They need to hang close to people that do hear God and learn from them quickly. My wife often receives warning dreams from God. Others receive prophetic words, visions, etc. This info is so important so we can intercede for the situation. We may be the only ones that stand in the gap. Through prayer we can do much more than evangelism, teaching, etc. alone. I often challenge people that don’t understand the power of prayer to go and hand a celebrity a tract. Or the president of a nation. Witness to them. Well, since they don’t know them, they really can’t. But in prayer we can change that person’s atmosphere in a split second. Same thing for our neighbors, our boss at work, etc. Then, when you couple prayer with other ministries- look out! Major power! I propose prayer is the main thing- being with God and compelling others to be with God. Intentionally, with passion and fire. If that’s not the goal, what is? I often hear people say, “Sure, pray, but don’t stay locked up inside the church”. Why not? Some people have a calling to do little but pray- for evangelists, pastors, etc. That is their calling. The way I teach it is this- some have a grace to pray 6 or more hours a day. The rest of us certainly have a grace to pray half that a day. The problem is that for most people, they haven’t pressed through the tough part of prayer. When people start seeing angels, visions, having dreams, hearing God speak continually, having prophetic words confirmed in amazing ways, experiencing miracles, etc. they simply can’t stop being with God in a very intense and intentional way. Not while ‘driving down the road’ or ‘mowing the grass’, but on their face groaning and crying. We had a mission team come in last week. We spent 3 1/2 hours in a cave doing just that- and people’s lives were changed forever. One girl who was supernaturally touched said she never understood prayer- until that night when she experienced God consuming her for hours. We got back from the cave at around 1am, and she stayed up all night in powerful prayer. She went from little prayer to actually having the burning desire to pray for over twelve hours straight. Now this girl is going to intern with us. I just believe we’re in big trouble if we don’t understand the difference between Christian roles and our callings- and calling is only imparted supernaturally through a place of deep prayer.
Posted by

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 11:40 AM

Bernie,

Too bad the comic writer didn’t have an agenda… Sorry I didn’t find it funny disturbing or otherwise… just kinda dumb.

John writes “When people start seeing angels, visions, having dreams, hearing God speak continually, having prophetic words confirmed in amazing ways, experiencing miracles, etc. they simply can’t stop being with God in a very intense and intentional way.” John, I’m actually as charismatic in my theology as they come. But to be honest, most of the time when I’ve heard people have those experiences, they are exaggerated or worse. Which makes us all look kinda dumb. I mean lies about healings, blind seeing when they weren’t really blind, lame walking when they weren’t really lame… stuff like that.

And I maintain… When you set the expectation that high for people (hours and hours of “on your face prayer” every day) you discourage them. I truly feel that your “emphasis” and its particulars are out of balance.

But thanks for your perspective. I do appreciate it.
Posted by John Burton

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 12:23 PM

I think you hit the problem on the head. In this nation, we don’t expect such activity. In other nations it’s quite normal for people to be raised from the dead. Why would God not raise the dead through us? Why aren’t we seeing more healings and miracles? Why such little understanding of the invisible realm? Doubt. Low expectancy. Biblically, we are all to have dreams and visions, we are all to prophesy, etc. To lower the expectancy below that bar doesn’t make sense. To keep this info from new believers makes even less sense. I’d say to prepare people for a wild life of visitations of Jesus, amazing dreams, bold prophetic utterances, etc. The enemy has lulled us to sleep… and we must push him back violently. Otherwise, our good hearted attempts to advance God’s Kingdom will be powerless.
Posted by Leonard

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 12:50 PM

You make bold statements that sometimes are contradicted in the Word of God. It would be my encouragement to check what you say with scripture. John the bible says we do not all prophesy because we are not all prophets. 1 Corinthians 12 Again check what you say with scripture. This is critical if we are going to advance the kingdom. God’s Spirit will never contradict God’s word. I am not trying to be a watchdog over you but the statement is clearly opposite of biblical teaching and patterns. Experience does not trump scripture. I love your passion and zeal.
Posted by Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 1:56 PM

John Burton said:
“ In other nations it’s quite normal for people to be raised from the dead. “

What’s your example or reference to back up this claim?

...Bernie
Posted by John Burton

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 2:56 PM

There’s a popular video out… I’ll paste the description below. A man was actually embalmed and then raised. There’s also a missionary in Mexico named David Hogan who’s ministry has seen hundreds from the dead. Info on him can be found at http://www.fathersglory.com/insp/David_Hogan-1.htm. Unfortunately, there is so much skepticism… when this should really be an expected outcome. I also met someone at International House of Prayer in Kansas City that raised someone from the dead. Here’s the info on the video:

This is the remarkable story of a Nigerian pastor, Daniel Ekechukwu, who was fatally injured in a car accident near the town of Onitsha, Nigeria, Africa on November 30th, 2001. During a dramatic journey to a hospital in Owerri, Nigeria, he lost all life signs and was later pronounced dead by two different medical staff in two different hospitals. The latter wrote a Medical report and commissioned the corpse to the mortuary. But Daniel’s wife remembered a verse in scripture from Hebrews 11: “Women received their dead raised to life again.” She heard about a meeting where Evangelist Reinhard Bonnke was going to preach, and proceeded to bring Daniel’s body in his coffin. What follows is a story you will never forget.---- you can see it at http://impactchristianbooks.com/products.asp?Submit=GO!&Author=bonnke
Posted by John Burton

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 3:06 PM

Regarding the issue of prophecy, the bible is clear on this- no, not all hold the office of prophet, but all are to prophesy. Just like not all hold the office of evangelist, but all are to evangelize.
Acts 2:17 “‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. Also, 1 Cor 14:31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. Also, 1 Cor 14:39 39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. And also, 1 Cor 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. Remember, every believer is called to live in the invisible realm… dreaming dreams, having visions, etc. This isn’t activated through knowledge, but via experience. Not emotionally or logically, but spiritually. We have to have ears to hear, eyes to see, etc. That way we can know how to pray.
Posted by

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 3:47 PM

John,

To say that all are to prophesy is reading into scripture I think. And as far as the stories of miraculous raisings. They’re easy to believe when they are halfway around the world. Too often I’ve seen sensational stories debunked and proven wrong. There are always stories… I just have yet to see/hear any that are compelling in their authenticity. I stand with Bernie on that one.

Hundreds raised from the dead? I’ve heard that one before… I don’t doubt that God can! I do doubt the stories I hear because of so many sloppy and inaccurate reports… I’ve heard these things for decades… The links you post are to sources that I, for one, do not find compelling…

“Remember, every believer is called to live in the invisible realm… dreaming dreams, having visions, etc.” Thats’ a stretch, my brother… QUITE a stretch. The Bible doesn’t say they ALL will have visions and dream dreams…
Posted by Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 4:10 PM

“What follows is a story you will never forget.---- you can see it at http://impactchristianbooks.com/products.asp?Submit=GO!&Author=bonnke “

Wow- what a nice testimony, if you want to pay $20 for it. No one ever charged for testimony in the Bible. Can’t they put some kind of evidence on the web for free? If it’s just a matter of faith, why mention it? If one mentions it, they should document it. Why? Because there are too many religious charlatons out there.

I also believe God can do miracles. However, I’ve also heard Benny Hinn say he has healed hundreds or thousands, yet there has never been any evidence. He says he will provide it someday, but ne never has. There’s a story once where he supplied evidence of something like 7 cases, and none of them panned-out. However, I do know people who have received healings of sorts from different revival meetings.

Your David Hogan link does report to have seen hundreds raised from the dead-- where’s the evidence? I’ve seen “Christian” liars first-hand.

Hogan’s website says:
“When David is not in Mexico he ministers under a strong anointing for preaching and healing.”

Then why doesn’t he go into a hospital with a film crew?

I see Hogan does have a video here:
http://www.fathersglory.com/insp/David_Hogan-2.htm

I’ll listen to it…

...Bernie
Posted by John Burton

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 5:27 PM

I’d caution against too much scrutiny… it’s often birthed with seeds of doubt. The problem is that we’ve become used to living a non-miraculous life. In the western culture we’re very logically driven. We demand stats, proofs, etc. Yet, in the invisible realm it’s very different. In other cultures such as India, Christians and non-Christians regularly see demons manifest, for example. It’s a very normal way of life.
Posted by Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 6:24 PM

John Burton said:
“In the western culture we’re very logically driven. We demand stats, proofs, etc. Yet, in the invisible realm it’s very different. In other cultures such as India, Christians and non-Christians regularly see demons manifest, for example. “

How come the demons don’t manifest in America like they do in India? Does American logic scare the demons away, or make them operate more under-cover?

...Bernie
Posted by John Burton

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 8:00 PM

I really believe it’s because they have no need to manifest… if we don’t believe they exist, or are active, they can do in the invisible realm as they wish. In our ministry we have experienced some bizarre and powerful demonic manifistations… deliverances, etc. A YWAMer from India mentioned that manifistations like I shared with him happen every day in India. A minister from Nigeria wondered if I was Nigerian! He said such things happen over there all the time as well. If we could see in the spirit realm, we’d see demons and angels moving about… and we’d then be able to accurately pray. So many need radical deliverance… and here in the US they don’t often seem to find what they need… we suggest counseling, psychology, etc… but if we could simply see the spiritual issue we could deal with it. So, if the demons don’t manifest, and we don’t know they are there, they win. They get to stay and infiltrate people, churches and cities undercover. I think in other nations they are used to seeing demons via voodoo and witchcraft. So, when they find Christ it only makes sense to deal with them directly.
Posted by

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 9:50 PM

John,

No offense, my brother, but your line of thinking sounds like a cop-out to me. “I’d caution against too much scrutiny” I’m sorry, I would rather caution against too little. The whole counsel of God is very opposed to not doing due diligence in regard to investigating these things. You’ve lost me with this argument.

Your argument above about deliverance and such is not based on sound biblical teaching, but seems to be only based on opinion and emotion. I don’t buy that myself… Your idea of “why demons don’t manifest in America” is not based on any scripture I’m aware of.

There’s a dangerous road that you’re on in my opinion… VERY dangerous…
Posted by John Buron

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 10:11 PM

What explanation would you suggest for the lack of spiritual activity in this nation?
Posted by

Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 10:29 PM

John,

I think we’re off topic here, so we should let it go. Your question only makes sense if I accept wholesale the stories of resurrections and miracles that have been put forth lately, and I don’t know that I can. Especially based on your arguments and explanations…

And there is a tremendous amount of spiritual activity that I see where I am… I see lives changed by Jesus all the time…

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