DanileR:
Good adviceand good word.

Brad,

Six years ago I was in a similar circumstance. It didn’t go as far as physical adultry, but it was enough to remove me from ministry for a time.  I’m only now getting really back into the swing of things.  You have a LONG road ahead of you my brother.

Its good you are seeking counseling. Its good you are offering apology for offense. I’m glad you are rebuilding with your kids. I assume you are accountable to someone who can actually have some authority over you.  (I don’t mean just smack your hand authority but thats part of it!  I also mean encouraging you authority. It took a while for me to find a pastor like that!)

I gotta tell you just two brief things. I think you should SERIOUSLY consider the issue raised here and I guarentee will be raised in the future.  That is your continuing relationship with the woman you did this with.  At the very least your wife, your kids, and your community will look at this as a sign that you have not repented!  It will always be a weight to you my friend!

I do not know what your wife is feeling in the middle of all of this. But I can tell you regardless of where she says she is now, there is NO WAY she would ever be willing to reconcile so long as you continued this relationship.  For you to continue with this woman was to sever the possibility of being restored in your marriage.  (I say this understanding that your wife may have told you she didn’t want to) But that’s not relevant. The point is your unwillingness to let go of that relationship would always guarentee she would never work it out with you.  I know she may have filed for divorce. But the point again is - why would she EVER think of working it out?  You’re still with that woman!  I think the point most are making here is that your actions don’t appear to line up with your words.  You can say I’m sorry… but this relationship says you’re not!

If a brother can provoke you a bit toward good deeds. You are WAY out of line in the way you are applying David’s scenario.  Remember he MURDERED her husband!  Death had made it impossible for them to ever be reconciled!  Furthermore, you cite a KING not a pastor.  Kings in that day were often married to multiple mates. The New Testament strictly forbids that to pastors!  There are numreous other qualifications too!  One is having a good “report” of those outside. Brother, I say this in love. So long as you have this woman, you will struggle with that one!

Having said all of that lets address why its so hard to let her go… I’m sure you are hurting, and lonely. She probably provides one of the few voices of comfort you have in your life. (Of course that could be why you ended up having sex with her too!) You probably worry about hurting her even more!  Sure you do. You were, after all, her pastor! I can understand why you don’ t want to do anymore damage.  However, let me say this is all the more reason to let her go. There is a reason why therapists and pastors have ethical boundaries regarding these kinds of relationships.  The fact that those were violated (and continue to be) only causes more difficulty.  I highly suggest you spend some time on this one. If you have ANY hope of TRUE restoration you must address the WHY you crossed this boundary.  And you must realize its value in being there.  The fact that you continue with her begs the question if you even know what you did wrong yet on this one.

In conclusion, (for now) I have no hard fast answers for you my brother.  I only ask you to consider the possibility that you are causing more pain for yourself (and possibly her and others) than you know right now!  I don’t doubt your ability to secure a place of teaching again down the road… the gifts are without repentance.  What I worry about for you is what I worry about for me… Will you save others but later find yourself lost because you didn’t “really” repent.  See thats the main question here my friend.  You brought up David.  I suggest you spend some serious time meditating… WHY was David restored but Saul was not?  That is more applicable here than the other application you suggested.  I suggest you make a list out, sometimes it helps.  What good could come from leaving the relationship behind?  Ask this of those who you trust not to give you the advice you are “shopping” for.  What good would come if you left it behind?  What harm would potentially come from continuing it?  I don’t doubt you’ll find a position again. You will. But the greater concern is ... will you be God’s man? Or will you be a wolf in sheeps clothing?  WIll you be using your gifts as Balam did?  What do you think Paul would say to you if he wrote you about this in this day in age?

I’m not pushing you in any direction. If you want help of someone who has been where you are and has been restored… God’s way. I’m here for you and you are welcome to email or communicate with me.  This is a true attempt to encourage you to consider God’s path for your life.  I have no ego needs to be involved if you choose not have that.

Signed, One beggar telling another where there is bread. If you want it.

Zad:

Very good word. Your heart is transparent and I appreciate your wisdom and insight.

Be blessed.

Brad, I hope you hear this as I intend it. I don’t wish to offend or hurt you. God knows you’ve been through some serious wounding already and my goal is NOT to make it harder. However, it seems to me you are either really hurt by my comments are you still have some very serious work to do yet. I don’t know which, only the Holy Spirit does.  The point here isn’t arguing scripture. I don’t have an argument to defend. I don’t have any personal needs that require I “win” the debate here!

What I will say is that when it comes ot the subject of sin we really do need each other!  The fact is people are blind to sin. You are and so am I. Especially as it relates to pride and when I want something other than what God wants, and when I want it ALOT.  See what I’ve learned the last 6 years is this. The nature of what you’ve fallen into (and I did in heart if not in actual deed) is that you do it blind. Oh, you know its wrong to have sex with someone other than your wife. But its the little lines that lead up to that that and away from that that are tougher to see.  That’s where God uses the church to help you.  To go to David, which you seem to want to do, its where you need a Nathan.  Did you ever stop to ponder the different reactions David had to rebuke from a Nathan, verses Saul’s reaction to a Samuel?

See this isn’t about what you’re comfortable with.  Its not about your subjective “feelings” about your relationship to Christ.  This, my friend is about crossing the line that God set for us.  He said, “No.” And we found reasons to justify it at first. I don’t know what your reasons were, I haven’t sat with you through that.  Maybe your wife was unavailable emotionally, sexually, didn’t listen, complained too much? I don’t know what the dissatisfaction seed that Satan planted was. But its the way he usually does it… the wife just doesn’t… but then enter the one who does.  The one whose “sin” knows my “sin” comes into view more clearly and the line is crossed little by little. And you find a way to justify, to be at peace with, to argue FOR the sin… pretty soon its not sin anymore.... its just a lunch or a lingering conversation.  She gets me.  Its not bad, I haven’t touched her!  I could go on… I don’t need to.

The point is you and I have missed the boundary lines we were supposed to keep up. We found ways to justify them.  We IGNORED comments from the church body that God brought to us. Usually there are very “superior reasons.” For me it was my wife just doesn’t “understand” the scripture the way I do.  For you it appears to be a hermeneutic that is more rigid, or wrongly applied.  Or a person who isn’t into Christ’s redemption.

Dude, I’m VERY into Christs redemption!  I eat it up. But my question is from what are you being redeemed?  Have you left behind your pride yet?  Have you learned to listen and learn from a child who doesn’t have a great “hermeneutic?” Have you taken seriously the warnings from others regarding your apparent lack of repentance?  From what have you repented?  I ask this one sincerely.  What have you repented from?  Was it the consequences of your sin?  Or was it blurring the boundary lines that allowed a pastor to exercise his influence in such a way as to take another man’s wife?  (If you want to consider David, what do you think Nathan would have said to David if her husband had still been ALIVE?) No, I’m not suggesting you guess!  I’m suggesting you listen to the Holy Spirit!  I wasn’t suggesting you guess at what Paul would write either… I was suggesting you quiet your heart an “hear what the Spirit would say to you.” That is exactly why I said it that way.  Its kind of asking WWJD.  What are we supposed to do guess?  No, of course not. I’ve asked brand new believers WWJD when it comes to issues like smoking.  And you know what? Even new babies in Christ seen to know that one.. .if they want to know.”

My brother I don’t want to have you over for dinner and “hang out with you and the wife you stole from a parish.” And I don’t really have a need to “pontificate.” (I know how strong that sounds.) I want you to realize how deep this goes and take it before a Holy God who DOES want to redeem you, not just sell you fire insurance.

What I hope will happen is that the Holy Spirit will use the words from a person whose been there to wake you a little more to how serious this is!  Its NOT the same for you as a guy who went to your church by the way!!!  This is MORE serious!

I want you to experience grace and full restoration. I don’t want to be seen as a person who can’t just “let you find forgiveness.” I want to speak the words, “you are forgiven.” I do. Problem is have you repented from your sin? Do you even know what it really was yet?  Your comment about “man made rules” feels a little to me like you are rebelling against something God IS doing through some of those “Man made rules.” I made similar comments my first few months too.  Its not about a man made rule. Its more about God giving you some time to hear what the sin even was.

Did you even wrestle with my boundary issue comment?  Do you even know the influence you had over this woman you still want to try to have a relationship with? The one you were supposed to lead?  Where did you lead her dude? Closer to God?  How can this corrupt foundation ever have a righteous building?  How can you ever stop being her pastor? Even now?  Its just a nasty mess.

I doubt you’ve had any deeply spiritual people tell you this relationship is a good thing. At best you probably have heard some of us reluctantly admit if you really MUST ... then maybe He can clean it up somehow.  Is that what you want? Or do you want his best?  See this is sooooo nasty… and thats the way with sin. It has so many tentacles, to ruins so many areas.

What I’ve seen the body say thus far is this. If you continue in this they will always wonder did he EVER deal with it or just justify it?  Did he do this right?  You already have enough of that when the adulterous relationship is forsaken. I’m glad you can so easily say you are at peace with Christ. I still wonder that 6 years later!  And I didn’t sleep with her!  And I thankffully was able to keep my children’s mother as my wife. I still wonder sometimes does he still accept me?  I quote 1John 1:9 at least weekly if not daily to myself.  And I didn’t try to “make it work” with the other woman. My friend I can’t imgaine the hell you are heading for if you continue that relationship!  I have a couple that married after adultry. (neither was a pastor) they still struggle with wondering if they are okay.... and I encourage them regularly to receive the forgiveness of Christ and go on.  I say to you my friend you dont’ even know what you are about to get your self into if you continue with this woman!  At least right now you’d be able to say… “I did forsake that sinful relationship. to try to seek you God.” THe words of Jesus come to mind here… cut off your hand, pluck out your eye… its better than ....

I’m really not here to judge if you’ve repented or not.  I don’t know. I AM trying to help keep you from a worse hell that you are about to go into.  And I aint talkin about when you die!

I think the body is saying… DUDE let her go!  Yeah, I DON’T know how hard that is.  Problem is I don’t think you don’t know how hard it is if you don’t!

If what I"m saying is of God He will confirm this with others who KNOW you in every day life in some way!

Peace

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adultery is adultery. For clarification to those watching ringside, Heidi had been single for a while before we were together.  And yes, some deeply spiritual people are speaking into my life. Yet, for some who have “perfect” spirituality, I doubt my friends are spiritual enough. They do exhibit the fruit of the spirit in abiding ways.

So glad Heidi was respected enough to merit a passing reference and was promoted from “that woman” to brother’s wife.  She’s neither. She’s Heidi--created in God’s very image.

Thank you zad for listening to your wife.  It’s called insanity when you keep trying to change what clearly is not heard. 

Communication is a gifted talent and Brad has an incredible gift to write, communicate and preach.  No I’m not brainwashed because he was my pastor.  I have a brain and I’ve made choices that I am forgiven for.  I wish that I could be sinless and perfect and without flaw but if that were the case why would I need Jesus.  Oh yea, I do.  Thank God we are forgiven.  Thank God for the neverending love He gives me. 
Thanks God for hearing my heart and Brad’s heart. 
We will pray for your heart Zad.  We will pray for your continued healing that you appear to struggle with in your heart.  We will pray for your wife’s healing and we will keep you both lifted as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Theology is not my major but I do know that God loves me, Brad, his family, my family and all those that are directly and indirectly effected.  Frankly, He love the world.

He is an amazing God and He can create beauty out of an ugly mess.  We are going to listen to Him and see what He wants us to do regarding our future together just like you listened to Him during your affair of the “heart”.  It truly is a personal walk with God.
Many Blessings.....

read my blogs. No denial. I’d give my life to take back the choices and harm.

I invite you to step away from the safety and sanitation of blog-space and engage with me as a human, not a case study. Invest in your convictions.  Come take me to lunch.

Zad:

You have articulated yourself well.  While I prefer to lay down scripture, you have layed down the truth from another angle which I appreciate and which is sound theologically.

While some on this site would counsel using definitions from the dictionary or even worse, write that they dont need scripture “just common sense”, you have lovingly shared wisdom...I oftentimes lack your ability to gracefully make a point.  Thank you.

So back to earning my relagation into the “not understanding grace, too harsh crowd”.

Brad Brad Brad:

Please, you were to be a leader and EXAMPLE to your congregation, I wont lay out scripture again, we all know it.

You no longer meet the requirements set forth by scripture to be a pastor, period, end of story.  And yet you want to be up front, sermonizing on your blog and others.

Shut it down, supplicate, pray and stay in His word..Instead of blogging, spend your time in His law.  The time you have spent defending and justifying could be used more wisely.

Imagine the 19 year old young man, who may have been in your congegration (or not) who has followed your story and your justification.  What have you tought him about his future relationships?  What example has been given by Heidi to all of her young sisters? 

Rationalization, relativism and justification need to be replaced with repentance and humility.

“How we think we’re going live, when everythings relative, is anybody curious?  Without truth society is deranged, thats why I’m up in your ear begging for change” - The Tonic.

THIS is writing we can learn from. Its truthful and tender. Nothing pious or parental. Its lathered with meekness, but not weakness.

Thanks for teaching us all. B

brad writes [Wow, didn’t know it would become a pulpit for others with diagnosis and prognosis.]

Now you know for the future, and now others know, and perhaps we can all learn to adjust.

Blessings!
Peter